Michael Ramsay on Buying the Bellarine, Surf Coast and Geelong

I've noticed it's like a circus in there. That's what I've seen, to be honest, with these interstate buyers advocates. I don't think it's very professional, probably not ethical. Our motto is buy without regrets.

If you can buy a property that will serve you for 10 years as opposed to three years, that will serve you well. Buying a great property today, that's not just what it's about.

It's also getting something that could be ripe for improvement when the time is right for that investor or for the next buyer. You think about, right, lifestyle, what's important to you? How do you get to work? What do you need for your family? What amenities like parks and shops?

Then you look at the budget.

Welcome to Street Secrets. I'm Chris Bates and my mortgage broadcast is 2013.

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In this podcast, you'll get access to Australia's leading buyer's agents' minds every week on a Thursday. What's the word on the street?

Welcome to Street Secrets. I'm Chris Bates. Very excited to do today's episode. We're going to go to a part of Australia that is pretty stunning to live in, a place I've visited many times over the years on sort of family holidays, et cetera. Michael Ramsey, how are you doing?

Thanks, Chris. I'm based in Barwood Heads, which is not that far from Berrygurra, where I grew up on a farm. And I did that for a while in Jackaroo and went over to New Zealand and worked over there and came back and then decided maybe farming wasn't totally for me.

And I'd also had to share that responsibility with my brother. Although we're good friends, we decided we couldn't work together perhaps for ever in a day. And at that same time, I happened to see a little advertisement in the Age newspaper for a real estate agent.

And I thought, oh, I had a couple of friends selling real estate. And I thought, oh, Maybe I'll give that a go. And so I applied for the job and got the job and started working in Hawthorne in Melbourne for a company.

And that's how my property venture started selling real estate. I worked for another couple of companies, ended up working for a company called RT Edgar in Toorak and 18 months later became a partner there.

But although it was good fun and you earn a lot of money, I was It didn't sit that well with me that you were bridging a gap all the time between what you were telling the vendor he might achieve for his property and the buyer.

You were telling a buyer that he could possibly purchase the property for a certain amount. And neither of these scenarios were totally accurate. And so I just had a bit of an ethical... and moral problem with that.

And so I just decided I didn't really want to do this for the rest of my life. So I might as well bail out now, 10 years is a good time to do that.

And then I decided just then there was one other person who did it at the same time as me actually. And I didn't know anyone else in Australia doing it. And so that's when I started. Wow. I mean, that's back in 1998.

And so pretty much one of the

I hate that word, but the godfathers of buyer's agency. Well, I was thinking of that word today, actually, the godfather.

Yeah, the pioneers, I guess. And I think that would have been a strange time, you know, like actually explaining what you did and how you help.

I totally get that sort of feeling of want to be on the helping the buyer because you can just be so straight with the buyer, you know, in the agency world. It's not their fault, but they just have to play those games to sometimes get transactions done. They do. So it sounds like...

have you always sort of been on the sort of the surf coast ballerina or were you doing a lot of your buyers agency in the first bit in melbourne um yeah how's that sort of gone over the last 28 years yeah i was working when i was with rt edgar i was working um as i said in the eastern eastern suburbs so i was i sort of knew i put a ring around 10 kilometers from the cbd when i started my buyers agency business because that's what i knew and

and eight to ten kilometers no point going any further than that because i didn't know that area very well i couldn't i couldn't tell people i was an expert in that area but i had spent 10 years closer to the cbd so that's where i concentrated that's where i went and saw um all the um when i first started to get business i went around i hit the ground like a jack russell actually and i went around and saw all the agents in their meetings and offered them 20 of my um fee

I tell you that because my first client came through a selling agent. Some people think, just to go back a step, some people think that antagonising a selling agent is the way to bid at an auction and conduct your business. It's actually not really the right way.

But that aside, these people came down from Queensland. This is an example of a buyer's advocate, how useful they can be. And she was sort of six months pregnant and Her husband was way on business.

So anyway, I looked at a whole lot of houses, found this one that they really liked, bid for them at auction. We secured it. Since then, I've done about four transactions with them. And so people are very loyal, you know, and I've had wonderful clients throughout the journey in 28 years.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think, I mean, we see that as well. I mean, we had a big business for 12 years and, you know, it's gone from an apartment to a house, upgrade and reno and they, yeah, you're kind of part of their long journey.

It starts to start to feel a bit old, to be honest, because you're also going through your own journey and, but you also get better, I feel like, I mean, have you felt that, You know, as you sort of evolve, as the industry's evolved, you get more and more market knowledge.

You can start to see patterns. And when did you sort of shift down towards more to sort of the Geelong, sort of back to where you grew up?

Yeah, so I didn't ask the question, but 14 years I had in Melbourne, and then I decided to move down for personal reasons. And also I saw a need down here where I grew up.

So we had a holiday house at Barwood Heads when I was little, and my parents built a house down here. And so I've been down here roughly 14 years in Melbourne and 14 years down here, servicing the Bellarine Peninsula. and the Surf Coast Shire and Geelong. So I do those three areas.

When I was in Melbourne, I started in a spare bedroom like everybody does. And then we had an office in Chapel Street in South Yarra. We had about four staff.

As I moved down here, the staff fell off. They went and worked for other buyers advocates, which is sort of the way I wanted to do so. Then they had a job. And then I came down here and I had a person working with me for a while.

And then I've got a girl, Sonia, who works with me in the office down here.

Yeah, so it's a very topical area we're going to talk about today is obviously the Geelong, Bellarine surf coast, particularly like the Bellarine Peninsula, which I'll let you explain where that is, but also the surf coast. Obviously, a lot's changed with COVID, a lot of people escaping Melbourne.

but particularly in the last couple of years, it's been a bit of a, well, maybe in the last 12 months, investor hotspot. Everyone sort of has gone to the Perth, the Adelaide, and a lot of investors I feel have been going down to that pocket, Geelong area.

But yeah, explain this sort of the Bellarine Peninsula. I mean, a lot of people may not even been there, but sort of what drives that market? What are the sort of places people really want to be? What are sort of the challenges?

Yeah. If you go back to Sea Change, if you ever watched that on telly, I don't know if you did or not, but that little cafe fishery building is still there and is heritage listed. So that's where Barwon, that's in Barwon Heads.

And so it's just a very old, almost like a country town, but on the seaside. And it's where the Barren River comes and meets the ocean, called the Bluff. And it's a bit unusual because you do get the ocean and the river side, and it's very popular with families and little kids.

It's only got a population of about 5,000 people. And then from Barwon Heads, you go across the Barwon River to Ocean Grove. And that expands all the way out. It goes in two directions, across to St. Leonard's and around to Port Arlington, where there's a new ferry now that goes across to Melbourne.

and so then that's one of the reasons becoming quite popular i think down here is it's obviously cheaper than the mornington peninsula here in saying that bowen heads has a median price of about 1.4 million and point lonsdale which is the next closest um price wise to bowen heads is about 1.2 million and so the prices are still up there and then ocean grave is the biggest town it's got about 20 000 people

It's a growth corridor area. So they're building another 10,000 properties by 1946 and that will continue. And it's just, I don't know, it's just become very popular. During COVID, I bought a few properties and these people were buying sight unseen.

They were trying to get through the iron curtain or whatever it was called and became more and more popular. People decided they didn't want to live in Melbourne anymore. It's an hour and a half from Melbourne. It's got some of the best golf courses in Australia.

It's been voted, Barwood has been voted best golf town in Australia. And it's just little villages where people don't really mind. There's no real prestige down here. There's just a very casual way of living. And I think people just enjoy that.

And then the surf coast,

That, of course, that goes from Geelong through to Lorne, along the Great Ocean Road, and that's become, that's always been popular, you know, and during summer, these towns explode, you know, Lorne goes from 2,000 people to 30,000 people, and Anglesey is in the middle, and that does the same, but they've always been popular, but I think, like all regional areas, they're just becoming more and more popular because people can afford from home, and

They just see it as a nice place to live. Geelong has everything you could possibly want, which is only half an hour from all these towns. And that's a big plus. And there's plenty of employment in Geelong. You know, there's plenty of head offices there.

You know, WorkSafe and TAC and Cotton On and Deakin, you know. And that's why it's becoming popular, I think. And a lot of Barwon Heads and Point Lonsdale people, the buyers here from in the Western District, you know, farmers come here and retire.

Yeah.

A lot of it. Yeah.

As if people still escaping Melbourne, like they're keeping their Melbourne jobs or they, you know, traveling one or two days a week. Are they, or they, do they feel like it's a bit too far for that and they want to be more like Geelong?

Like are they, you know, from the Bellarine and the surf coast, is it, is there still the sort of the, you know, the COVID refugees that work from home hybrid work or is it a bit too far for them?

No, no, a lot of people I know, they travel to Melbourne twice a week at least. Yeah, okay.

Yeah, so you've got a lot of younger families, you know, escaping Melbourne sort of city life, but, you know, then just putting up with the commute.

Typically, was it a lot of the pre-retirees and retirees that also moved there, like escaping Melbourne, but still being able to get back and see the kids on weekends if they want? Has that sort of also been driving it? Yes.

There's both. A lady I brought through last week in Port Arlington, she's moving down from Queensland. She used to live in Tasmania and now has decided to, for whatever reason, she's a single girl, she's living here. And then during COVID was a young couple with families. So I've bought across the board.

I've bought in nearly every town on the Bellarine and Surf Coast. But they are all different, though. Some are holiday houses that they only come to once a month, maybe. But a lot of them, I just recently also bought a house in Barwood Heads.

And those people, that couple I bought an apartment for in Melbourne. And they decided now to live down here because their parents are near here and they're going to live here. He's going to go to Melbourne twice a week and she's going to have a job in Geelong.

So that all sort of ties in pretty well.

And so what does someone, you've got a client brief and they're like, look, we want to escape Melbourne. Why do they usually generally go more towards the surf coast versus the Bellarine? Is it purely down to money? Is it due to schools?

Is it due to like a different side of community and life? What are some of the major reasons why someone would prefer one over the other?

I have some clients that look in both. So it's not always one or the other, but I think that surf coast is definitely a younger demographic. It's a sort of cool place to live. It's the base for Rip Curl and Oakley and all those areas.

And you'll find lots of young families in Torquay. And you've got the Bells Beach Classic. It's a much younger generation. That's why they go. And then Anglesey. is similar but more family.

And then Lorne is just one of those places where people have been going their whole life, you know. Yeah. For some people it's a bit far. It's a good two hours from Melbourne.

But people who had holiday houses there still have them or they've passed them on to their, you know, passed them on down the chain to their children. Yeah. And so that's so that. But I just, I think it's a demographic. I think you're either a Bellarine person or you're a,

that surf goes more hip, if I can use that word, type of environment.

Yeah, that's good. Because this is what people sometimes try to figure out, where's their tribe? I mean, obviously there's been a lot of, Victoria made some changes with land tax over the last few years.

Even the ATO just recently announced some changes around sort of the way they're going to assess whether you can negative gear your holiday homes, et cetera. Like how are these things sort of playing into the overall market down there? Because they're quite big changes, particularly the land tax a few years ago.

The land tax, yeah, it's mentioned a lot. I haven't seen a lot of that. It's probably less than 5% why people are selling around here. But it's not ideal, is it?

I mean, there's obviously a lot of people that I probably don't see who say they're just selling because they want to buy somewhere else. But they're probably selling because of land tax. But I haven't noticeably seen it, to be honest, in the towns that I buy in.

I know most of the people who sell in these towns personally, and I sort of know their situations, and not many of them are land tax, but you'd think they would be. There's obviously a few.

I mean, if the children don't want to take on the responsibility of the land tax, then I can see why the parents are selling. I mean, you know, you can't sort of have it both ways.

Maybe it's hit their Mornington picture, maybe a bit harder, maybe because the higher price points, higher land values, maybe it sounds like it's a bit cheaper. And so maybe the land tax bills aren't really that enormous. Would that be a fair call?

Yes, it is. Because, you know, if you've got properties worth between five and 15 million, then that's which we don't. That's a big difference and that's a big hit, you know, because obviously the more expensive the land, the more money you're paying.

And so I think if that was the case around here, then you would see people selling. They just couldn't pay. They just wouldn't be able to pay it. But if you're paying, you know, if you're paying $2,000 or $3,000 extra in land tax down here, you know, it's probably palatable.

If you have to pay... $50,000 to $100,000 a year extra, that's not so good. I know it's all relative to what you're earning, but still even people who earn a lot of money think, well, you know, this is ridiculous.

Yeah, I mean, a lot of people are using it for a sort of second home, holiday home, and maybe they've got a bit of debt on their home, maybe they've got a bit of debt on the investment, and it just starts to, you know, do you sell your investment, do you sell your home?

And, you know, you can see why the Mornington's probably had a bit more of a challenging time, you know. Oh, that has.

There's no question, because I know a few people have had to sell because of that. Yeah. I think it will start to bite here. You know, as properties become more expensive down here, then more people will sell because of that reason.

Because instead of being worth $2 or $3 million that land down here, or $2 million, it'll be worth $4 million or $5 million, and then that will really bite.

Do you find that, obviously you mentioned about Ocean Grove, like big expansion plan over the next sort of 20 years, but is there sort of issues when people are sort of, they don't know the areas, they don't sort of know how close they've got to be close to the shops and the beach and walking.

Like, is there often, you know, when you see some, you know, maybe not clients of yours, but other buyers that they're sort of sometimes chasing their own properties, you know, and so making some of the common mistakes that the locals don't want down there. Like, what are some of those,

the locals just really don't like in the Bellarine Peninsula.

In regards to the new buyers, you mean?

Well, just more like they don't want to be in this part of the suburb or these type of properties have got steep blocks or whatever it is. They're usually like some local sort of secrets.

The properties they just generally prefer to avoid because they'll pay a premium to, I don't know, be walking to the beach or whatever it might be. Is there a sort of... sort of an ideal lifestyle that they're trying to achieve and they put a lot of value on a property ticking those boxes?

Or is it more a lot of properties are more matched and it's just more about they're not constantly discounting certain types of locations or properties?

I tell you what they do, like what the buyers who are coming down here, what they want to do is walk, if they can, to the beach and to a coffee shop. That's what they want. And that's not always achievable with the budget they've got.

And so last month we had this buyer who we showed her 15 properties in two days. She was down from Queensland and was on a timeline and she was weighing up. We showed her all these houses, some were close to the shop, some weren't, some was close to the beach.

And anyway, she ended up buying one of the properties we showed her because of the view. The views from Port Arlington that a lot of people don't know are unbelievable of the Yu Yangs and the bay and the city skyline.

And you can get all that for under one and a half million, which is where you can get some, sometimes you can get that for under a million, you know? So that's the difference.

But yeah, no, I don't know if there's any particular scenarios where people don't really want to buy or be near, I guess. And with Ocean Grove, you've got old Ocean Grove and you've got new estates. There's three new estates, so...

There's over 2,000 properties for sale in Ocean Grove at the moment. And they turn over. They don't sit around forever either. So there's a lot of activity in that town.

So if you're in one of the new estates, you can't walk to the beach and you can't walk to the main street of Ocean Grove. It's too far.

So some people say, okay, well, I prefer to have a new house for that price than an old house and pay more and be near the shops. So it's a real trade-off, isn't it? Like wherever you buy, I guess.

Yeah. So it sounds like obviously there's new estates and there's challenges sometimes with more supply coming, et cetera. And how does yours say, particularly if they're more affluent by the one with money, really wants to be close to the beach and the shops.

And so, yeah, you might find there's two different markets there, right? Someone who's going for something new versus something that's maybe a longer term, scarcer asset. Is there a bit of an acreage market down there? I know that

you know, places around the Mornington there is, and, you know, as you go sort of inland, sort of Geelong, is that a play down there? Or do people sort of, you know, really just want something closer to the water?

No, no, there's lifestyle properties for sure, which I've helped people buy and sell. And that's normally under 200 acres. And so, in fact, I'm acting as a vendor advocate at the moment, which is where we help people sell the house.

We choose the agent and the commission and the timing and the way we'll sell it. And anyway, I was just looking at some properties. There's about 15 lifestyle properties between that two and five million for sale just near here.

And some of those, you know, people love those properties if they can afford them. But you have to be the type of person who's happy to drive half, you know, 15, 20 minutes to a shop. But if you like that acreage lifestyle with a swimming pool and horses, there's plenty to choose from.

they're not cheap yeah it's the uh you like the lifestyle to drive it'll say love your gardens and now your maintenance um yeah but you know it's an amazing life as well i mean so you've got yeah your prestige sort of you know um is there certain pockets where you get those sort of prestige beach suburbs is there some certain pockets where you know if money isn't a question that people really gravitate like you said to port arlington around sort of those views is it parts of

certain pockets of Barwon Heads or Ocean Grove or that people will just naturally really gravitate to want to be in that little pocket there.

Yep. In Barwon Hedge, it's near the golf club. So you need deep pockets there.

And if you go 200 meters across the next main road, I did a bit of research on this a few years ago, but I just noticed that if you move 200 meters away, then the land price halves incredibly. And then if you go another 200 meters away or 300 meters, it halves again.

So further away from the golf club, that's accepting for the river, which is premium as well. So you can be on the river down here. You can't get sea views here, no matter how much money you've got, really.

But you can get river views or you can be near the golf club, which there are all those houses between... sort of three and six million, I guess.

And in Ocean Grove, if you get views, you can get amazing views of the water in Ocean Grove, but you need to pay again if you want the prestige spot. So that's in Ocean Grove. It's the sea views. It's here.

If it's all that to be near the golf club, walking distance is important. And then, yeah, Point Arlington, it's to get the best views, you'll pay a premium, obviously. But those three towns, and Point Lonsdale, it's just to be near the township, really.

And those prices are, you know, they're all sort of $1 million to $2 million as well, if you want a half-decent house near the township.

Is there any issues with schooling or childcare or anything for the younger families where they just find it really hard, whether it's primary or high, they find it really hard to... sort of be in certain pockets?

Like they have to, you know, if you're a young family, you have to live in sort of Ocean Grove or Barwon because your schools are there and you can't live in. Is there some pockets that are not great for younger families, but more desirable ones?

No, Barwon Heads has got a fantastic primary school. Yeah. And they have to accept children who live in Barwon Heads. So they just keep expanding the school. It's blown out to about 400 at the moment, which is a lot for a town that's only got 4,000 people.

and so uh and the parents i heard the other day someone saying how fantastic that school is so it's a really good school ocean grove's got several really good schools um drysdale which is a funny town it sits in the middle it's not anywhere near the water but it's got one of the best secondary schools in victoria and then secondary schools there's a bus from all these towns to take you to geelong grammar and geelong college two of the most prestigious schools in victoria

And there's a bus that goes from these towns straight to the school, which is pretty handy. And so they do try and look after... No, it's got great kindergartens down here. Yes, as I said, schools are good, but they do try and look after most of the schools in Geelong with a bus.

And I think the parents are pretty happy.

Yeah, I mean, that's going to be sometimes the challenges, right, when you go, you know, a little bit further away from the city school options. But it sounds like, obviously, I've heard a lot about the sort of the grammar schools in Geelong.

I mean, that's been up there as, you know, for the private options. But it sounds like there's also good sort of high schools within the Bellarine as well, right?

So if you don't want to go down the private option, because that can stop a lot of demand, right, if the school options aren't great and people are stuck in the city. How do people sort of think about the sort of the –

The Geelong versus the Surf Coast versus the Bellarine, like, is it really just come down to whether they want sort of more of a city life, suburban life versus a sort of more of a quieter sort of pace life?

Is that sort of where you find the buyer will naturally figure out what suits them? Or is there anything that really drives people to Geelong over sort of the, you know, the Surf Coast or Bellarine?

Yeah, I think you're either a city person or you're not, Chris. I think Geelong, the new towns of Geelong West and Geelong East, they're the better suburbs in Geelong. But then, you know, it's like a ripple effect.

So the suburbs that are near those suburbs are gaining traction as well. But...

I know a few people who live in Geelong but normally they move out further to a township they seem to enjoy more and then they just it's only 20 minutes into like going to another suburb in Melbourne really but you know to get to work and they just want one or two acres or they just want to be near the beach they think oh well if I'm in Geelong if I go 20 minutes further I've moved from Melbourne I might as well live near the water the kids can walk to the beach and

we can go down to the street. It's just a nicer lifestyle, I think. And that Geelong CBD has huge problems. And so that's not a great drawcard until they fix what's going on in there. But the suburbs are very popular near the CBD.

Is it just development there? What's some of the challenges you see?

I just think it's just a lot of

Got to be careful a little bit. There's a lot of unemployment. There's quite a lot of drugs. There's a lot of graffiti. There's a lot of closed shops. And people don't go there. Yeah. It's after dark. And so it's a bit safer.

That's, you know, I could say that, you know, if you're going to go 20 minutes further to Torquay or Barhins or Ocean Grove or, you know, one of those coastal towns, I think. But if you, you know, if you...

like living in a township then you know that you're always going to do that I think for a lot of people a friend of mine actually had a few acres in Torquay he's just moved to Geelong and loves it so you know he doesn't he's thrown his lawnmower out and he's got a couple of pot plants and that's all he's got so he's like happy happy as so people make both changes I think

Yeah, that's right. It doesn't have to be forever. But you're right.

I mean, if I go back on, you know, 10 years ago, like we had a bunch of clients buying the sort of the Geelong, the Newtowns, the Ripplesides, you know, all around the sort of, not so much in Geelong, but, you know, a lot of the older Hightons and Belmonts.

And yeah, but I mean, they were a lot of those sort of the... You know, people just escaping Melbourne, looking for an alternative option for their budget outside of, you know, the Melbourne inner ring housing market. But the Geelong also, it's been a, I think it's just become the hotspot for investors, right?

And I mean, just, you know, obviously the budget's changed a lot of this, probably for the good news. But how have you seen those sort of interstate buyers agents sort of buying sight unseen, you know, and how they're affecting the sort of Geelong market? What have you noticed?

Yeah, I've noticed it's like a circus in there. That's what I've seen, to be honest, with these interstate buyers advocates. I mean, it's just, I don't truly understand it.

And that's one of the reasons myself and this, you know, and my colleagues started that REBA association so we can just have buyers agents that we can all work together with.

Because one agent told me the other day in Geelong they'd bought 14 properties from an interstate Perth buyers advocate and she just sent him videos. of the property and then the buyer's agent would just tell the client it was a good buy.

But I don't know if you're adding a lot of value in doing that, I'm not sure, but that's a lot of property. And so I'm guessing nearly half the properties sold in Geelong at the moment are to interstate buyers advocates, sight unseen.

So I think that'll drop off with these new rules, to be honest, with the capital gains and the negative gearing and the land tax from a few years ago.

But, yeah, I just don't get it really, and I don't think it's very professional, probably not ethical, and I don't know how they can give advice from so far away. But those towns that you all mentioned, those suburbs you all mentioned just then, Rippleside and Belmont, Hyden, East Geelong, West Geelong.

I mean, they are really all still great suburbs and they've all gone up in value, you know, quite a lot in the last... Especially I noticed East Geelong is still going up about 10% a year, which is pretty good.

I was talking about it's because they were...

know a lot of beautiful homes in there there's a lot of older style character homes um and you know when people have that's what melbourne's all about right you you um you weren't there for a long time so i don't need to tell you that but um you know the streetscape the beautiful sort of heritage features and the sort of you know those that is just something what people wanted to replicate and they can replicate that exact type of property down into long you've got streets and streets of that type of property right like it's a beautiful

housing from a, you know, a heritage point of view down there, right?

Yeah, and you can buy the double front of Victorian House, like you're talking about, there's thousands of them in West Geelong and East Geelong and Newtown. And, you know, for half the price that you'd have to pay in the likes of Toorak or South Yarra or Paran or Fitzroy or somewhere. Yeah.

And there's no traffic to speak of, really. And, you know, you're 20 minutes from fantastic beaches and golf courses. I think that's what it's all about.

and it's a bit safer, arguably, and more grass, more green, you know, parks, and just I think it's a better lifestyle for the family and the children, to be honest.

Yeah, and I think over time it's gentrifying more and more, right? More people moving down there. The older homes are getting sort of renovated. You know, new people are moving in. And, yeah, maybe Geelong's got some challenges now. But, I mean, there's lots of positives, I think, with the overall area, right?

It's got a lot of investment. There's a desire to build more hubs outside of Melbourne, right, rather than just going further and further into the farmland. And Geelong's sort of that number one fit outside of Melbourne, right? Obviously Ballarat and Bendigo, et cetera. But Geelong is right up there.

Obviously you've got Avalon Airport. Yeah.

It's probably still one of the best places to invest. I mean, I know Ballarat and I like Ballarat. I don't buy a lot of property there, but you know, it's been voted 17th, 16th happiest town in Australia. But I'd still invest in Geelong. It's just got so much going for it.

They've just got to tidy up the CBD a little bit, and then it's a fantastic city. It's already nearly 300,000 people. It's going to expand to 500,000 in the next 20 years.

And so you can't help but, in those suburbs especially, you can't help but think it's a solid place to invest in. I mean, there's just too much evidence. There's too much employment. There's too many great beaches and, you know, open area. The foreshore is fantastic.

You can jump on a boat to Tassie. You know, you can do anything you want down here.

Yeah, that's right, isn't it? That's where it's going from now. And I think the opposite is fast rail and all sorts coming up in the future. But, you know, those areas are probably close to the sort of the centre, but they're a little bit further away where it's not too close.

But, you know, I do think a lot of these buyers agencies you spoke about weren't going to those areas. They were probably going quite a bit far north. They're going a bit further south. They're going a bit more of the cheaper, sort of more affordable parts of sort of,

And because that was where clients brief were, and that was the pitch where they can get a certain yield that sort of satisfies their sort of investment criteria.

And, you know, they're pushing it out where, you know, and creating rental supply in these areas, but it's not typically where a lot of the older wealth was in Geelong. It's probably more on the fringes and they're probably the cheaper parts for the lowest share economy, I guess.

Is that sort of what you're seeing as well? Like when you talk about where those buyers agents are buying there, They haven't been buying in those because they're often a little bit higher than what they could afford these in or their clients, the pitch was to clients.

Well, yeah, those suburbs and some of the better suburbs. But you're right, the sweet spot was about $700,000. Because I know, because I came up against them a couple of times. But, you know, they're still going to be, they'll be okay, the people who bought those houses.

Because, you know, they'll still go up in value. But it's just, it's whether they've done the due diligence that you need in far as this, you know, the structure of the house and whether it's the right property to buy for them and

if there's going to be any problems, if there's a development at the back. Buyer's advocates are all about having someone in your corner that you can contact day and night and not make any mistakes. People say they help you buy the right house, but they help you not buying the wrong house.

That's the big job we do, I think, on the main.

I didn't want to be too harsh on the other buyer's advocates, but You know, I just can't see the value in paying the money, whatever they charge to secure a house, but they'll probably, the people who purchase them will be okay, I think.

Yeah, I mean, yeah, I think you're, yeah, and that's what great buyers agents will do is just the local DD, you know, you won't even look at certain properties in suburbs because, you know, you don't want to buy in that pocket or that street or it's just, you know, there's something undesirable that you know that is going to hold its growth back.

But then when you do find a property in a suburb, in a street that you like, it doesn't mean you buy it. It could be, Plenty of issues from a building to a privacy, who knows what else, right?

And so you need to, and that's not going to get shown up on a video and you can't really look at it sometimes on even street view. So, and then obviously, you know, trying to buy fast, right? When you've got to buy so many transactions, you're just going to,

potentially rush it, whether overpaying, whether you're not negotiating the best terms or, you know, skipping through contracts. I do think that, you know, you're going to go to drop balls. And I think you're right though, like, you know, Geelong's got probably really strong fundamentals. So it's not like it's a market that's,

know all of a sudden the investors stay by there no one else wants to buy them um you've still got a lot of people escaping melbourne or like you say moving from other states um you know a lot of people go well i could cash in and i don't mind a bit colder weather and it's pretty beautiful down there and i can go to melbourne on weekends or go to tassie or even fly back north in winter so i think there's a lot um to life living down there how's it go with the agents in the bellarine and sort of the surf coast i mean

Um, obviously you've been doing a long time now, so they probably know you, um, and you know, they know how to work with buyer's agents, but you know, does that give you a really good advantage than say, you know, some out of area buyer's agent that's buying there, they just don't know because they're sort of also

coastal sort of community towns, they're probably a little bit extra wanting to know who they work with they can trust.

Yeah, I think so. I think that's a big thing, especially in small towns down here. Melbourne had a very good rapport with agents and I made that my business that I would and not annoy them too much, but you know, get the job done.

But I think it helps so much, like just lining up those 15 houses we saw in once. If you didn't know the agents, they'd say, honestly, Michael, I mean, you know, this is getting ridiculous now. But I think they do a lot of favors.

Tomorrow I'm looking at a couple of houses with two different agents. I know you can do that anywhere, but it also helps down here. And I do know the agents really well. And they refer me clients and we're all sort of family down here, really.

But it makes a huge difference if you get along with them.

They tell me about properties that are coming up, and they're good to deal with. They get me through houses any time of day that I want. I mean, I don't push that privilege, but it's available there when I need it.

And Chris, I think it makes a huge difference if you've got a good relationship with these guys, and I do, and girls. And it helps the buyer, obviously. Yeah.

You're right. You sort of, you said it in that way, you know, it's like it, it's a, you know, they're looking after, it's a privilege, I guess, if you get through time and trust the dealing with them and then they're like, well, actually, no, I can get Michael in here early.

I know he's not going to stuff me around. I know he's got a buyer there ready to go. He'll tell me what he really thinks about it. And, You know, he'll negotiate fair. He won't just play games. And that's what an agent really wants.

They know the trust that the offer is going to come through and what they tell their vendor is actually going to happen. They don't want to have it on their face. So I do think that'd be hard for a new buyer's agent just starting out and You know, it takes time.

Yeah, it does take, yeah.

And when quite often sometimes we buy, because they know I'm going to go ahead with what I say I'm going to pay on behalf of the buyer, sometimes we just text back, you know, we might go up $100,000 in all different configurations, you know, and we just do it by text, not often.

But then we formalise it once we've bought the property. But it's just you can get that a lot quicker that way instead of signing five contracts every five minutes, you know, you just... backwards and forwards. And, and they said, well, I said, will you, will you take this? This is our last figure.

And then they come back. Yes. Okay. Then we'll sign up. Then we sign up an hour later. You know, it's just, it's all done pretty professionally. The buyer, my buyers sort of see all this going on. They think, geez, there's no way I could have done all that.

This agent wouldn't, wouldn't have dealt with me like that. You know?

Yeah, that's an interesting point actually around the trust to be, you know, on text and negotiate, right? Like a lot of, you think you're going to get sniped at the 11th hour, you know, if you haven't got a signed contract and that brings a lot of anxiety for buyers.

And, you know, maybe other competitive, you know, say more competitive inner city markets, they might be dealing with three or four different buyers agents, but You know, I think they'll probably, there's in these towns and for you, you've probably got this level of trust to know, yep, that's a deal done.

Yeah, you haven't signed paperwork, but you know that they're not going to fall over and they know you're not going to fall over, which, um, yeah, it can make a difference, right? Because you've, you know, sometimes you've got to get that vendor to agree at a certain hour of the day and, uh,

you know, signing contracts just isn't that possible straight away.

That's right. And, you know, a little while ago I was helping a friend of mine's son, daughter and son-in-law buy a place.

And so I sort of knew the agents and they started after we passed it in for an auction and they went down the track of there was someone outside who'll pay more if we don't pay it, you know, this sort of thing. And I said, listen, that's,

let's just park that person outside for a second because if he was going to bid, he would have bid. And I just need you to concentrate on me and me, you. And anyway, it took an hour and a quarter later, but we bought the property.

But I think you can sort of stop them in their tracks a little bit if they know you and say, right, we'll just... Let's not talk about someone else who might buy this property. We just want to do it here and now. And we went backwards and forwards for quite a while.

But I knew the agent. He knew that, you know, I wasn't really mucking him around. I was giving him offers where the property was worth. And the deal was done. Everyone was happy, you know, at the end. It took a bit longer than normal.

But, yeah, it just helped the buyer and, you know, didn't antagonize anybody. I just told it the way it was.

Yeah, sometimes the agent's got to get their vendor over the line, right? They're the one that's stopping things and some really good feedback, and they can actually use your pitch and your offer. And I'm sure you're helping them condition the vendors to the market and what it's actually worth.

You know, that's another benefit of a great buyer's agent, I feel, is that they and the agent can actually sometimes work together with a motivated, you know, to motivate the vendor to actually get a deal done rather than hoping for some wishful, you know, outcome that may or may not happen, right?

Michael, I'd absolutely be super comfortable referring any client to you. And I think anyone listening to this, you'd be in very safe hands on the Bellarine Surf Coast, even Geelong. And I really appreciate the chat today.

No, it's been great. I could talk for you for another hour, I reckon, but maybe next time. I appreciate the opportunity, Chris. Appreciate it, Michael. Talk soon.

Thanks so much for listening today. We hope you got lots of value out of it. If you'd like to speak to our guest today, there's links in the show notes on how you can get in contact.

And if you're buying your first home, upgrading, renovating, or need any finance-related queries, obviously we'd love to help. There's links in the show notes to us as a mortgage broker, and we look forward to next week's episode.