Ying Chan on Buying in Melbourne's Outer East

Buyers can't do themselves, but it's very time consuming. Like I don't try to cut my own hair. I go to a hairdresser. You can search and buy for your own property, but time is money, as we all know. So it's really valuable to have a BA. Our motto is buy without regrets.

If you can buy a property that will serve you for 10 years, as opposed to three years, that will serve you well. Buying a great property today, that's not just what it's about.

It's also getting something that could be ripe for improvement when the time is right for that investor or for the next buyer. You think about, right, lifestyle, what's important to you? How do you get to work? What do you need for your family? What amenities like parks and shops?

Then you look at the budget.

Welcome to Street Secrets. I'm Chris Bates and my mortgage broker is 2013.

And in this podcast, we're going to be interviewing Australia's leading buyer's agents, ones with decades of experience, have the local insider knowledge on the street, and can really help you with your buying process, no matter whether you're a first home buyer, upgrade or investor.

In this podcast, you'll get access to Australia's leading buyer's agents' minds every week on a Thursday. What's the word on the street?

Welcome to Street Secrets. I'm Chris Bates in the studio today with Ying Chan. Super excited to do this episode. Going to a part of Australia where I was actually born. So I haven't even told Ying that. And the outer eastern suburbs of Melbourne. And I've got a lot of fond memories.

My nana sort of grew up in this area as well in Wonturna South there. And yeah, a lot of history around the Fern Tree Gully sort of Dandenong Ranges. And then we're going to go talk the outer east of Melbourne today. So thanks so much for joining us today, Ying.

Oh, thank you for having me on the show.

Yeah, I'm excited to talk about these areas because I do know them quite well. I've been going there since I was a kid.

And I mean, for those who don't know you, maybe just give a bit of an understanding of sort of when you got into Buyers Agency, you know, how the journey's been, a bit more understanding about your team and sort of where you guys buy.

Absolutely. So I've been an advocate for 14 years now. It goes very, very quickly. I used to be in sales. So I used to sell insurance to doctors. So we have a lot of medico and dental and allied health clients. Prior to that, I was a grad at ANZ.

So I've got a pretty intricate understanding of banking, lending, loans. valuations, that side of things. So it's really important when clients are placing very big trust in us and making sure their valves stack up and nothing bad happens on the lending side. So we've got that experience in the background.

I've had my own business for seven and a half years now, and I was an employee as a buyers and vendors advocate at a national property valuation firm where we did We're doing over 800 vows a day.

So again, a really good experience to understand the banking side of things on the back end. And our team's grown. So it used to be me typing in my lounge room on my armlet couch.

And then 18 months in, we hired our first team member who lives in the eastern suburbs, who does a lot of our out of east work. clients and inspections and works together with us on that. Then we've got two senior advocates, one junior advocate.

We're actually the same age with Carlos. It's under Sean and I. And then we've got four back end staff as well. So we fully get up to help all of our clients. It's great having that

team where we can cover up for more inspections for our clients, be ready to, as you know, sometimes deals happen very quickly. So if I'm out looking at property, I can call one of them to get them to do the due diligence.

Sometimes, as you know, you're on the phone to the council on hold for over an hour. So just having all the different team members fulfill their different roles is really valuable.

for our clients and just being able to make the phone calls because like a lot of advocates, we make phone calls on behalf of our clients to the agents. So it's not something that buyers can't do themselves, but it's very time consuming. Like I don't try to cut my own hair.

I go to a hairdresser, take me a very long time and the outcome would probably be really poor if I did my own hair. But it's very similar in that sense where, yes, you can search and buy for your own property, but time is money as we all know. So it's really valuable.

To have the BA on your side.

Yeah, there is a lot of legwork, isn't there? And that's, I think, the legwork gets exhausting for clients is they, you know, they're excited, they're getting pre-approved, they're out and they just, you know, they basically burn a lot of legwork, right?

Chasing the wrong properties, getting taken on a journey, you know, switching suburbs, trying to fit as many opens as they can possibly, you know, and it becomes exhausting and then they're falling over the property and they completely miss out and they end up getting basically burnt out.

and they look at by fatigue and they leave. And so I think there is a lot of that run around and the big cost isn't so much their time and their energy.

I mean, that's money, but it's, it's, it's more, they give up sometimes I find is that it just becomes all too much. And you know, all of a sudden something happens in life and all of a sudden it gets pushed down at the priority list.

And then they, you know, sometimes years and markets can run on them. I've seen really some bad situations. So I think that's really valuable. I also like the, I work with lots of different buyers agents that have got like one or two people, right?

And, you know, they are really protective on who they take on. And so they just know what their capacity is. But then I also, you know, I guess what's really valuable when you've got a bit of a team, I think there's that sounding board, covering ground.

You know, if you have to move fast, you've got more hands to actually go and get deals done. So let's just talk about the outer east. You know, it's kind of Melbourne's a lot of wealth in the east, right? You know, the typical, you know, the Hawthorns, the Campbell Wells.

But I think a lot of people misunderstand that a lot of that wealth also travels further east and a lot of different cultures. I mean, I mentioned at the start, my Nana moved to Wonturna South. She went in the 80s. It was a farm out the back of her house.

You know, got a 600 square metre block near the shops. And, you know, she just tells me the stories about how it used to be a farm and that was the new housing estate. But it goes for, you know, a long way now past that.

So just sort of talk about sort of the outer east and sort of where your sort of region expands and how you think about it. And, you know, sometimes the pivots people make, if they...

can't find what they want there like where do you sort of steer them too often to give them a different lifestyle option absolutely um yeah it's really changed a lot uh even went from when i started in real estate ringwood used to be the outer outer east in our in our opinion back then but when i started i thought where's where's ringwood where's

Borinaya, all these places that we hadn't really heard of. I grew up not far away in the southeast suburbs of Melbourne, but for clients, we started going out there more so for home buyers. And then with our investor clients, it's a really good area to be able to buy land.

You're boarded by the

Daniel ranges so you know once you're getting into the hills so there's a natural bottleneck between the CBD to the mountains so there's not you know a lot of subdivisions you're getting into bushfire territory in the outer east so there's actually a natural pressure point to push prices up but we find the big driver for the east is really schools so we work with a lot of families

are looking for schooling options so the east uh obviously been known for being a very green and leafy areas anyone that likes parklands bush greenery mountains we will always steer them uh towards the east of melbourne but we tend to find schools are a massive driver because not everyone can afford a three four five million dollar house in hawthorne camberwell q um but there's

just as amazing school options out in the eastern suburbs. So both along the Lilydale line, so around your Ringwood and surrounds area, and also a little bit further south towards your Knox area, there's a lot of very desirable schools.

So yes, if I haven't said enough, schools are a big driver in the east. Great public transport. When this link opened as well, it's It's questionable. Sometimes I'm sitting there questioning my life choices. I'm sitting in a standstill on the Eastern.

No, the train, having both the train line, so you've got the Belgrave line, which goes out through Fentry Galley to Belgrave, and then the Lillydale line.

So a lot of the shops and activity, we call them the activity zones, that are being implemented by the state government, so allowing for higher density development around train lines and train stations and access to trains. public transport.

So that's been a big driver into the area where, you know, I'm sure you would have seen it in Sydney, but post COVID there's, people just want to stay in their local village, their local area.

So I really have seen all the local shopping strips and villages come into their own and, you know, trendier cafes come and, you know, You know, the gentrification's coming when you can get, you know, matcha oat lattes on ice with filtered coffee.

So when the fancy drinks are coming out to the outer suburbs, you know, areas are gentrifying.

Yeah, I think that's one of the key wins out of COVID, to be honest. It's sort of falling back in love with your local high street. I mean, that's what it used to be back in the day.

Then it went all to the Westfield era, you know, and no one wants to shop, you know, on their high street. And it kind of killed it and

You know, and I can even remember that, like, group of shops, and here's my nana, because, and you're right, there's a really cool cafe there, you know, the blockbuster's gone, and there's a gym in it, and it's like, it's all of a sudden, it's become, like, a pretty cool place to be again.

And I think that the whole eastern suburbs, I think you're right, like, the schools are, and it's not also private, right?

There's a lot of great public schools, which is, a lot of them are desiring, you know, they're paying a bit more for their house, because they know they're going to save on the private schools, particularly when you get two, three kids. It's...

you know and where private school fees have gone is that is also a driver moving out there absolutely um so we find uh clients sometimes come to us where they would love to be a bit closer in in the east but then they have to have the toss-up of being being able to pay you know for 10 grammar fees or um kindness fees um but then the perfect balance is buying a good school area

affordable so that they can actually afford the school fees for the two, three kids. As you said, there's plenty of public school options. So Ringwood Secondary is a really desirable public school area now. So we're just seeing the zones getting tighter and tighter over time. And then as you know, as

one school area, public school area lifts, then it drags along the surrounding public school catchments as well, generally over time, not always immediately, but then you see the next school zone get popular and then that gets desirable and people want to be in there as well.

So we do see that toss up where, particularly after COVID, where traditionally a A family might have bought a, you know, $2 million house in Blackburn closer to the lake where the kids can get into school in Boroondara.

But now post-COVID, you know, they decided on Yarra Valley Grammar and they bought the big lifestyle property in Warrandyte instead. So, yeah, we've seen a big shift and people spend, obviously, with working from home and often with, you know, particularly with our clients, you often have both jobs.

people in the couple having to work, unfortunately, to pay for the property and school fees for their kids. So we often need to study. So a very popular thing we've seen post-COVID is the separation of spaces again.

So having a separate dining room or separate, you know, an older home, having the separate dining room that they can turn into a study or having that extra bedrooms. So a lot of traditional four bedroom house buyers have gone for five or six bedroom houses.

A lot of traditional three bedroom house buyers have gone for three plus study or four bedrooms. We look for garages as well. A lot of people are converting garages into studios or, you know, because of our podcasts and different hobbies after COVID as well.

So we're seeing that need and desire for additional spaces has been really, really valuable, which has definitely brought the outer suburbs to the fore. So we traditionally would work more inner to middle ring with our clients.

But we've been buying a lot out on the peninsula, out towards the Danes, out southeast. So that lifestyle, I think the key word is lifestyle, has been really, really valuable to buyers post-COVID.

Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. Like the desire before COVID was, you know, close as you can to the city time. I want to spend, you know, time, extra 10, 15 minutes I can get home.

I'm going to be in work early and late and it's all about sort of the commute and the pressure cooker to get to the city, right? That's completely shifted. Melbourne's probably the city that's probably come back a bit slower to the office.

And when you think about it, there was a bit of a premium you were paying for being closer to the city before. And then also the needs for homes are probably a bit smaller because you were out of the house a lot more. And I think that's sort of...

It's sort of been embedded now, right? And the good thing about the East, it's actually got amazing, very green, right, leafy, but also with the schools, but it's also got great, you know, ins and outs, right?

Like you said about the East Link, you can get easily out down to the, you know, Phillip Island or down that way if you want. You could go up to the...

you know the yarra valley and have a winery up near lilydale you can go up into the dandy nongs you can go up to warrandyte you know there's lots of great weekend um established sport and just really established communities right it's um and facilities that have been built

Particularly if our clients are really into their sports. There's so many footy clubs, cricket clubs, basketball clubs, netball clubs. So sport is a very big part of the East as well. So that community is certainly there and absolutely the green spaces.

So obviously the Thousand Steps, the Kokoda Memorial Trail is very popular. Activewear Central, you have to have your point activewear to go there. Yeah. You have to be very fit as well. It's very depressing when you're huffing and puffing up and down the stairs.

For the villages as well, there's some really beautiful villages we love buying in lifestyle areas. Certainly, you know, the behemoth of Eastland definitely has its place. So, you know, you can get...

absolutely everything you want there um but we love the little uh little gems like belgrave is a beautiful village uh like croydon main street it's got a really lovely long main street so with a real village feel so whatever the clients are after that some clients want you know they want the shopping town they want the you know knox shopping center they want eastland but you know other clients would prefer more village and lifestyle feel so we match

Yeah, we pretty much listen to what our clients are observing and help matchmake them with the right area.

Yeah, I think that's the key point you've made there is around... Because it's often, like, new to area buyers and maybe they haven't grown up there, whether they've grown up somewhere else in Melbourne or, you know, different cities or overseas, et cetera, and...

you know, a great BA will take them on that journey, right. And, and really deep, deep, deep on what's actually the life they want. And then, you know, making sure they get a good asset that sort of matches that lifestyle, right? Like it's means they can live in there for a long time.

They're super happy. Um, But you're right, it's got great train lines. I think that's something that, you know, obviously you can get to the city. Like if you want to get into the MCG and watch a game, you can.

You want to get to the city and have a city night, you can just get in and out, you know, from Glen Waverley or Belgrave or Lilydale. There's just some good train line links. When you've got like some of the newer...

It's just that these things just probably haven't been developed as well yet and just so established. Bigger blocks as well, right?

Like, you know, often, you know, you probably can find the six and eight hundreds, which is just maybe impossible a bit closer to the city unless you've got a lot more money or it's a little bit smaller if you go to a lot of the new divisions.

Is that sort of what you say as well?

Oh, absolutely. And when we worked with a lot of investors pre-federal budget, we would often steer them to the east just because the drivers of growth were there, particularly those larger blocks.

There's not a lot of places you can buy in Melbourne in a good school area with leafy greens.

feel for under you know under 900 you can still get a good good size subdividable block you have to be careful though because obviously when you're getting towards the hills you've got a lot more overlays bushfire overlays come into play and then It's quite hilly, obviously.

In terms of the usable land, you might have a 1,100, 1,200 square meter block, but you can only use 500, 600 square meters of it, so then it becomes almost redundant. Depending on what the client

particularly for investors if they're looking to have the potential to build and subdivide then we'd probably look for something closer closer to the shops and station where we know that subdivision can get through and there's precedent for it if they want more single home just as a set and forget then we might look at look at a property on a on a smaller block but with higher yield so depending on whether they're chasing yield or growth we found that east has always been

tried and tested for our investor clients but Probably no more, but we'll see. Yeah, it's going to be interesting to see what happens.

That's just at the moment, though, you're right, like it does make it hard.

And, I mean, the thing about the East as well, there's all these little pockets that I only find out about, even though I've spent so many times going there, like the Listerfields or the, you know, there's some really amazing, you know, bigger acreage blocks, you know, obviously, so Warrandyte, there's some other of these little sort of, if you have got a bit more money and you want something a bit different, like there's these sort of this other level, right, that sometimes people don't even know they exist.

Absolutely. Yeah, we love showing clients different properties. We had a client, one of them was a doctor at the Austin and then they were originally looking around in a suburb, so travelling from the inner north out to the Austin. But then...

Yeah, we ended up buying an absolutely cracking, stunning architectural home in Park Orchards, which is a beautiful little community just near Ringwood. And it's really not that... It was 20 minutes door-to-door to the Austin Hospital from there, but we love finding these amazing properties. And I'm a closet...

My dream job would have been an architect. So I love design. I love properties. So having the space in those areas where people can build beautiful architectural homes and, you know, we see a lot of beautiful mid-century, late mid-century. There's a lot of 1970s homes with vaulted ceilings that have been transformed.

So that's my – I'm obsessed with mid-century styles. So being able to see those properties and, you know, Further northeast, you get beautiful mud brick homes. So there's a lot of variants of styles in Ringwood area. You get a lot of gorgeous classic weatherboard homes.

So everything and anything you get, you get even the late 2000s, 1990s sprawling homes that were popular in the area. Yeah.

We see a lot of interesting paint combinations. Strange that they were popular, but they were. So we can see through all of that and understand what can be done to properties. We love seeing the potential. And just the variance of styles is probably a very big draw.

Yeah, I think, I mean, Australia is a, I'm a massive believer in multiculturalism and Melbourne is probably one of the capitals of the world, right? And the East has got like a lot of, it attracts a different, quite a broad biopool, right?

Like it's not, you know, it's people who have grown up there. It's just, you know, every single different culture. Do you find that also plays into it as well where you've,

You've also got to understand that the properties that someone's buying is going to appeal to a broad buyer pool, not something because rather than too sort of unique.

Well, absolutely. We try to, for our investor clients, we try to fund properties, which generally if we're buying in the outer east for investors, generally we're looking for land with an established dwelling on it. We're just trying to buy near particular schools, kinders, childcare centres and obviously public transport and shops, obviously.

These are no-brainers, not rocket science, but we do try to find properties that would fit a broad range of potential tenants and potential future buyers as well so we don't pigeonhole ourselves into one.

particular type of property so we just try to cover all bases and make it very broad uh in its appeal um certainly the multiculturalism is a massive um you know massive draw card where different um you know different clients want uh different things they might want a particular you know be close to a particular asian grocery store um in the northeast there's a large large persian population so they they

You know, they want to be near their community. So we're fine with schooling. It's obviously a very, being Asian as well, education is very high on the demand list for a lot of families, not just Asian families, but different demographics of families.

But trying to find that right mix where clients will sometimes ask us,

what's the demographic of this area? And we can certainly be anecdotal and say that it's largely Asian or Chinese or Malaysian or Indian, Sri Lankan, Anglo-Aussie, Irish, all sorts of demographics, which we have that intel where we share that with our clients.

So it's not always evident to say if you're trying to buy from interstate or you're an expat overseas or you're regional moving to Melbourne, but also clients that grew up in Melbourne. So we recently bought for clients right by Blackburn Lake, which is a middle ring suburb in the east.

She had grown up in Bayswater, which is right by Wonturna, but didn't even know that there was a lake in Blackburn. So she had grown up 10 minutes from there. Her husband was from country New South Wales, and he said he wanted a real bushy green feel. And then I just knew that...

Blackburn would be their suburb. So having that local area knowledge, expertise that we, you know, we call it pounding the pavement. So I walk through all of these streets. I drive through the rat runs. I sit in traffic. I'm driving by on, you know, school pickup and drop off.

I'm stuck in hospital traffic. I'm stuck in Eastland traffic trying to get in and out, trying to make right hand turns. So it can be, you know, our view is very, very micro the way we

Look at property, obviously, back up our recommendations with data and sales comms and rental comms and facts, but also just that anecdotal micro level experience that our team has that we're happy to share.

share with our clients and people who aren't our clients as well. I guess we can be very vocal and opinionated whether it's warranted or not. But at least if we give our clients all that information, then they can come and see for themselves.

We do things like take little videos and send them WhatsApp videos of the high street, like I'll knock on neighbours' doors, I'll stand in woolies and coals and... do a bit of filming so people can see who their neighbours and types of people that live in the area.

So that's probably my one key tip when you're investigating a new area, wherever that may be, is go stand in Coles and Woolies in Aldi for a few hours and you can see who lives there because everybody needs food, right? So you'll know who your neighbours will be.

Yeah, I think, I mean, you mentioned some amazing points there. I think... One of the issues of Melbourne is the traffic.

And, you know, some streets are easy to get in and out of, you know, particularly when you are travelling to public transport and, you know, the accessibility within a suburb to the shops. And, you know, what are those rat runs?

What are those pockets that just get clogged up and they are just really hard to sort of get around? They frustrate people once they've been living there for a few months and they're sort of the coat of having a new home is sort of worn off.

And so I think, yeah, that is the insider knowledge that I think that's sort of priceless. I think particularly, and even like you mentioned there, someone who's grown up within a few kilometres of that lake and they don't even know it exists. And I feel like often people are doing that.

They're sort of applying what they know in their suburb to their new suburb and they just don't know the suburb. They just don't know what's what the people love and don't love in that suburb sometimes. I won't talk about the mid-century sort of style.

It's exactly the same as me, and we would lose 45 minutes talking about that. But around the...

yeah the whole east i think it's just um obviously it's a really established real estate market as well um it's not like this new so so how has it sort of helped you you know obviously been doing it for so long but just really get into the to build those real deep relationships because it's a

You know, Melbourne's one of the auction capital of the world. It's a proper established market out there as well. Like it's not just, you know, a new real estate agency sort of pocket. So how does that really help you just building those long-term relationships?

It's just time in the market, like, you know, exactly like property. It's just spending that time pounding the pavement, having a, you know, I'd say we have a really good reputation. We never burn people.

We're very, you know, we're very easy to deal with and we always work in the best interests of our clients. So I think a lot of agents will see that and respect that.

Just spending a lot of time out in those areas and making the phone calls, sending the emails, just being out on the road as well. And people see our faces, agents in particular, meeting our clients. They know we've got buyers for the area.

And we're truly independent, so we don't We don't go, oh, we just buy from Noel Jones or we just buy from Jealous Grey or just buy from Hocking Stewart. We really, you know, it's about the property and the client. So we don't really care who's got, who has the listing.

It's really about the right property at the right price for our client. So I'd say time is the biggest, biggest key factor and just not, not mucking people around, you know, time is really valuable.

And, you know, I won't, you know, I'm always very upfront and just say, give them a call before making a private inspection and wasting the agent's time.

If the property is not going to be in the client's budget or, you know, then we can have those really frank and honest conversations with the agents. And look, sometimes we still get played.

I'm a very trusting person as my team and my family and friends will say, but always let people burn me once before I blacklist them.

So we know which agents will muck us around, which agents are serious, which agents are strong negotiators, which agents we don't want to be treating with because they might be a very, very tough negotiator. Some agents are easier negotiators. So in this market, particularly where we're seeing a lot of

A lot more private sales, a lot more expression of interest, a lot more private sale by set date. So they're all different methods of private sales.

And also, even if properties are listed for auction, a lot of them are selling before because we are seeing at the moment with less buyers out there and a flatter market, we're seeing a lot more one buyer auctioning. So we have to have our marching boots on for negotiations.

So having those really strong relationships that we've developed over time is really valuable. We've done a lot of vendor advocacy. I know not all BAs do VAs, but we have a lot of conjunctional sales. So we do a lot of sales in Knox, Maroondah, Whitehorse.

So all of those council areas, those LGAs, we've done a lot. a significant number of VAs. Some people think it might be a conflict of interest, but it's so rare that we would get the exact same property that meets the exact same client.

And we couldn't take a fee on both sides. We would never do that. But very rare that you would have an exact VA property that would match an exact VA buyer brief. But because we do so much selling conventional sales in the area, we have really good relationships. So I would

argue that you know rather than a conflict of interest it's a very symbiotic relationship where because we've we've developed that trust um in relationship with so many local area agents through our VA side of the business as well as the VA side of the business yeah absolutely um yeah I think you learn and you build relationships and you know the agents love working with you so I think some of the doesn't mean all the best VA's have to do that but I think it's um

i don't see it as a conflict i think this is a huge value add for customers um you know and also you know just building deeper relationships with the agents right they know that you understand their side of the fence um and obviously you're helping them find clients sometimes as well um we just talk about the sort of melbourne market i don't like to make these two sort of

now what's going on on the ground because i want a bit more evergreen you know it's gonna but like it's um it's got it you know it's had a pretty bad run you know obviously with covert and everything like that but you know the city is the city right like it's gonna get its mojo back i and you know you have to look at it now for what you can get comparatively to a lot of other cities around the country you're

um how are you feeling it is on the ground obviously the budget's put a spanner in the works around just another thing and the victorian government's under a lot of debt and you know people are a little bit more depressed probably because it's getting into the long winters down there but you know overall though like you know it does feel like the pressure cooker is there once the confidence comes back i don't know that's my take on it what's your thoughts

Yeah, absolutely. You know, I've worked in many markets over 14 years. You get to see a lot of ups and downs, ups and flows, picks and troughs. And what I can say is that no matter what the market, there's always people that need to buy and sell.

So we're very positive people and as a team. So we're not, you know, we're not selling hope by any means, but there's opportunities out there. So if people are looking to buy, like, yes, the market is very positive. very depressed, I would say, coming off last year's highs.

But there's been a lot of different noises this year with obviously the war in Iran, interest rate rises, inflationary pressures, cost of living, and obviously the federal budget has been a massive spanner in the works.

a lot of time on the phone in the last last three weeks so um yeah it's been it's been very wild and yeah it's it's a lot of doom and gloom the media certainly does not help us unfortunately a lot of it is the media nothing's been legislated yet like you know obviously there will be changes but particularly with home buyers uh you know the conversations we're having is um you know

particularly people upsizing, it's actually a better time to jump into that next home because the price, the differential, the delta between their current home, which might be a entry-level apartment, villa unit, townhouse, and then jumping into that next family home is, it's actually better off financially.

The trouble is a lot of, psychologically, a lot of people who've bought, you know, bought over recent years when the market was stronger, like just say in the COVID years, Their property, yes, it has come back.

But the property that they're buying, the next property that they're buying, anyone taking an upsizing step or a lateral step, like moving for work or moving areas for schools, you're actually better off doing it in this market. So we don't just paint a rosy picture.

We actually look at the stats and numbers or run through, you know, we'll look up what stamp duty is, selling costs, conveys the fees, etc. Thank you. Mortgage registration fees.

And we actually look at the real numbers and sit down with our clients and help them understand that this is actually a good time to do this. And we're really honest as well with our clients where we, you know, we can we can say hand on heart.

So just hold off till next year. We're very much about getting the best result, whether that's this year, next year, the year after next. whenever that may be. And that, you know, always pays us back in dividends.

So we're not afraid to tell people to hold for the time being and make sure that, you know, what they're aiming to do. We take a very long-term view with our clients. So we, you know, a bit like...

financial plan of industrial property, we're not licensed to advise on anything else, that we take that long term view so we understand what do you want to do in five years time? Have you got a high school planned out? Do you need to be closer to family when you have kids?

Is there any potential job changes that might change your work location? Any career changes? All that sort of stuff we understand so that we can help work backwards from their long term plans and goals.

And as we all know, life never goes to plan and there's always planners in the works, but we do try our best to make sure the property path aligns with their life and goal path in the future. And then we can work backwards from there.

So long story, the market isn't fantastic, but there's opportunities out there. One of the hard things that people really need to, whether they use a BA or not, is give themselves a bit more runway on the search process because anyone that doesn't need to sell, we're seeing a lot of sellers just

hold tight because the market's not strong. They don't have to get out of the house this year. Kids still have a few more years before they need to move themselves for high school. So anyone that doesn't need to sell right now is not selling.

We're not seeing any aspirational sellers out there going, hey, Mr. Agent, get me my dream price. And often in a moving market, in a rising market, they do get that dream price, but we're not Definitely not seeing that at the moment.

Anyone that is selling in this market is pretty serious. So it's actually a great market to transact in. And we love deals. So we love negotiating and getting the best deal for our client. So that gives us a real buzz. It's a very sick, fun game for us.

So it's a great time to actually strike. But the stock levels we find when the market goes down, and this is why Melbourne and Sydney never really go into free falls. Yep. People just don't sell. It just gets to, you know, finds its bottom and its level.

And then, you know, it gets to a point where people just hang on to their property or they might renovate instead and, you know, put that changeover cost money into a reno or add on that extra room or convert the garage into a studio.

So we've just, in all my time in real estate, every time... We get, you know, a noise event. We call it noise. Every time there's noise, you know, the market softens or flattens or plateaus or dips. And then as soon as the dust settles, everyone goes straight back, straight back onto it.

So we, during COVID, we kept, you know, we kept all of, we actually grew the team during COVID. And we, in the, you know, in 2023, when we had, You know, the 13, 13 successive interest rate rises. That was a tough, tough market to be working in as well.

We just kept all the team, all the team on board and didn't, you know, didn't make anyone redundant because I knew that as soon as the market ticked up, it would, it would kick and it did. But yeah.

Yeah, now we're in another dip, but yeah, we'll see what happens over the course of this year. We've obviously got a state election coming up, so generally people will sit on their hands with a state election towards the end of the year.

So I think the market will be fairly flat or depressed for this year.

So many things you said there that I absolutely loved. The whole trusted advisor piece. Absolutely. You know, that's what a, you know, someone who's been doing it a while, they go deep on the questions. They understand. They truly try to get the, and they take that long-term view. Absolutely.

I think, you know, rather than let's just get something done now. Like it's sometimes clarity is just not there. It's sort of, you've got to think it through and it's going to take time to get that, figure out what's going on with work or kids or whatever it might be. And,

or just not feel right, the right plan to sell their current place, to make the move, they might do some work to it or whatever it might be. So if you take that long-term approach, I think you do get those clients for life.

And also it's a great business model because they end up loving you and referring to you and coming back to you years down the line. So yeah, it's the other one. It's not a great move anyway. So I think you also mentioned some really good points there, obviously around not selling and

Yeah, and I think you're right. The time to upgrade is actually in markets like this is counter-cyclical. It's like when it doesn't feel like everyone else is doing it, you're more likely to get a good asset, you're more likely to get it at a fairer price.

You might not be happy with what you're selling your place for, but that changeover cost is better to be doing now than when the market runs and then it all starts to, everyone else wants to do it.

And you do sound like you're sort of banging your head against the wall, not you, but just generally sometimes when you're giving that advice out because it's actually really good advice and- A lot of people just maybe think, oh, it's a bit risky.

But that's where the sort of the biggest reward is when the market does kick and everyone else is scrambling on trying to make this upgrade happen because they can see that it's running on them. And you're like, yeah, that's fine. I'm already out of it. You guys can just compete over this.

And so I think that's really valuable as well. Yeah, I think anyone listening to this would be completely solid. They have no problems working with you or your team out of east of Melbourne. I love the chat today and appreciate you coming on.

Thank you, Chris. Thank you for the opportunity. It's been great to chat with you and get your valuable insights as well.

Thanks so much for listening today. We hope you got lots of value out of it. If you'd like to speak to our guests today, there's links in the show notes on how you can get in contact.

And if you're buying your first home, upgrading, renovating, or need any finance-related queries, obviously we'd love to help. There's links in the show notes to us as a mortgage broker, and we look forward to next week's episode.