Warwick Brookes on What Sells Badly in Melbourne's Inner East

I think the biggest mistake in these areas that anyone could make is buying a property without car parking. So many people believe, think it's not going to be a drama. I've seen kind of buyers once without car parking. Just once again, they sell them quicker than what they should have had to sell.

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Welcome to Street Secrets. I'm Chris Bates in the studio with Warwick Brooks from Domain & Co down in Melbourne. How are you doing? Good mate. How are you? Very well. Thanks for joining us today.

I mean, obviously we know each other, but for our listeners there, I mean, just give us a bit of an background. I know you've been at BA for a very long time. Yeah. What were you doing prior to becoming a buyer's agent and how long you've been in the game?

yeah so i started in real estate in 98. prior to that i was just buying some properties and fixing them up and selling them and then a real estate agent pretty much said to me you want to come and work for me um that was in hawthorne in victoria and pretty much about 18 months into that i realized that selling real estate was not what i wanted to do

because I wanted to be able to represent one party and not essentially kind of take on two people and choose which one is the one you're going to be negotiating with. So yeah, we started doing BA in 2000, one of the earlier ones.

I know that a lot of guys will say that 15 years ago it wasn't that known, but 26 years ago, it was definitely a new thing. So I've been doing that for a long time.

What are some of the things you do now that you maybe wouldn't have done say 20 years ago?

Like, do you feel like you've got a lot better or have you sort of plateaued a bit in terms of, you know, you got really good after 510 and all of those fundamentals have sort of carried through? You know, how has it changed?

Oh, definitely changed a lot on the way I look at property. It's more instinctual for me now. So I can look at a property. Sometimes I just drive up to a property. I don't even go inside. I just go, no, it's not going to suit. That's not going to work.

So I just know instantly whether it will work or won't work for a client. The big kind of shift, I suppose, from early day advocacy is in a blue chip, in a apartments were kind of a big thing in the kind of from 2010 to

probably 2014 of which back in those days every advocate was trying to buy those and especially in Melbourne they changed the the planning laws and made a massive oversupply of apartments and really took that up and yeah I suppose kind of one of the things I probably do regret in my early days is I followed trends of what other people were doing and believed a little bit in that and if we hadn't been buying middle ring Melbourne when everyone was buying blue chip apartments

the clients would have done a lot better.

The best people reflect on times when they could have done things better, right? That's how you learn, right? You weren't the only advocate that maybe also bought apartments because they did have a real true track record, to be honest.

But you're right, planning laws absolutely got relaxed across Melbourne and a massive building boom. That's changed, I think, in recent years, right? You know, the number of apartments have obviously building costs have gone up. And is that sort of gone full circle a little bit now for some of your clients?

And, you know, a lot of families are pushed out of the housing market and all couples and are now back into sort of looking at the more blue chip apartments.

Realistically, it's only probably mid last year it started to move properly. So yeah, it has kicked on. Because I mean, also you've got to look at all the new stuff that they've built is rubbish.

And the building's got so many, I'd say a large percentage of the buildings, there are legal battles with builders and all that kind of stuff.

Everybody reads those contracts now and just go, yeah, okay, let's just stick to the ones we know that have been there for 60, 70 years and they're easy to deal with. So yeah, they're definitely having a bit of a renaissance at the moment, which is good.

But yeah, there's still a lot of the building costs have obviously reduced the amount being built, but there's still a lot in the pipeline.

There will be, you know, the cost of land down there and the planning rules around maybe feasibility can stack up with a lot of apartments. I do think it'll be a challenge for Melbourne, like it has been in Brisbane.

Sydney hasn't had that sort of real supply run up and probably a bit harder to build, but it's probably going to be an ongoing challenge of sort of Melbourne is a constant influx of apartments. You've got to be really careful, I guess, in the apartment market down there.

But we talk about the housing market where you sort of specialize in sort of the inner sort of east. We don't like to make this podcast about what's happening on the ground today. But I guess when you think about

that pocket of sort of Melbourne, how do you sort of break it down and how do you sort of guide clients through helping them sort of navigate the housing market in the inner east of Melbourne?

Yeah. So predominantly our work has been in kind of like Stonington and Boroondara. which is suburbs like Hawthorn, Camberwell, South Yarra. And those kind of areas are very competitive, obviously.

And one of the big things that has kind of come to light in those areas is what you used to do is you used to, everyone wanted to buy something to fix them up and do their own renovations.

And that's kind of completely turned around now because the cost of land is so high and the cost of building is so high. Finished products,

more popular than anything else because it is so competitive and you're also dealing with price brackets that is not always a rational stopping point on what you think it's worth so that's why with every property we kind of say to a client look there's a couple of different values it's what the agent's quoting which we all know is not right there's what we think it's worth

This is what we can justify what it's worth. And then there's what it's actually going to sell for. And these can have big variations in value.

If I'm kind of on a property for a client and it's from our perspective, it's like an eight out of 10 and it ticks all the boxes because I've been in the industry so long in these areas, all the directors at all the major companies were starting in real estate when I was starting in real estate.

So we know all the guys, so we can call them up and say, look, what's going on with this one? They'll say, look, we've had this many contracts go out. These are the people that are interested. This is what they bid to on other properties.

And that gives us a kind of a judgment to kind of go, okay, we know that they bid to this much on another property. That property was not as good as this one. And what they bid to was still $400,000 above the quote.

So majority of the time when we bid at an auction for a client, we're either successful or we're the underbidder.

So they're very accurate in price. It can be a real challenge when you say it's a highly competitive market, which it is, right? The limited supply.

I know the Melbourne market hasn't really been moving like a lot of other places around the country, but supply of good properties would still be extremely tight, right?

And I guess when people come on, there's a bit of a seagull effect people are chasing and you can very quickly just burn a lot of time. you know, money just trying to find something.

So I guess you're really helping clients there, making sure they don't pursue something if it's just well out of their price point and they're not just wishful thinking. Is that sort of what you're sort of alluding to there?

Yeah, well, most people come to us because of the fact that they've missed out on a couple of properties. They've had the money to buy them, but they haven't gone in actually knowing, okay, what's it actually worth?

So they just haven't had that knowledge there to have all the confidence to say, okay, this is going to get highly competitive. And if I really want it and I'm going to hold it for the next 15 to 20 years as my family home, this is where I need to be on it.

You mentioned there like an eight out of 10 property. I mean, using that same sort of terminology there, what are the things that you put a lot of value on? Sometimes your clients don't put a lot of value on it as much.

But when you're thinking about the sort of the investment fundamentals, something that's really going to give them a good life, but also give them a good asset to sell one day, what are some of the things you really focus on in those pockets?

A floor plan flow is really big for us and livability for a family. Light, obviously we're doing a lot of period homes, so light can be another big factor and the cost of maintaining these houses.

So it's really from that perspective, because what we do find in Melbourne and I'm sure it's everywhere else, but history repeats itself. So if a property doesn't do well, it typically won't do well again.

So this is where a lot of people kind of, I suppose, get fall into that little bit of that trap of an agent will say, they might miss out on an auction. An agent will say, hey, I've got this great one around the corner. They take them through it.

They go, oh, we've got people interested. They're going to make an offer. And these people just missed out and they don't really think through it properly. They might buy it. Then you see it come back on the market two years later. And the same thing happens a bit.

I mean, in these areas, I mean, the inner east is a fundamental part of the inner east of Melbourne is the private school network. So a lot of people are buying in that area to be in that private school.

In Boroondara has more private schools than any other anywhere else in the world in that amount of space. So you've got to kind of look at, okay, what schools are the kids going to? How does that affect your transport?

So you might have a girl going to one private school, a boy going to another private school, and how are they going to get to school and all those different things. So we have to factor in these areas.

We have to factor in a lot of those things and where do they go to primary school? So you've also got in the inner east, you've got some of the state's best primary schools and look,

Why would you send your kid to a private school and pay all those fees when you can get into top primary schools? So there we're going, okay, if we're going to focus on buying your home, do we buy in this primary school zone?

But that also, where do you want to go to secondary school? Okay, how does that connect into them getting to that secondary school? And kind of thinking those kind of bits and pieces through as well.

Yeah, that life planning and the schools, obviously you say that's what people are sort of buying. But your other points there around sort of light, you also mentioned around maintenance.

I think that's often forgotten about right with these older homes and the cost to sort of maintain not just the house, but the gardens, et cetera. When you're looking at sort of the properties, what are some of the ones that you really try to steer clients?

Those properties that you said, you know, every two, three years they come back on the market. What are some of the attributes that often, you know, you mentioned floor plan before, like a really good flow, but what are some of the things that those properties commonly have?

One of the big hurdles in these areas is, yes, we have the most amount of private schools in a location, but school drop off and school pick up is crazy. Traffic is just off the charts. So when you got cut through streets and other bits and pieces like that kind of affects people.

You've also got in these areas, there is social housing through these areas as well. So you've got to kind of understand, okay, where is the social housing that does, because Once you kind of, when you're in like Hawthorne, for instance, you're bordering onto Richmond and you've got all the universities.

Some people kind of don't like, it's more of a inner city suburb. So it's a bit of a blend. There's, there is kind of across to the Hawthorne east and it's kind of more of a family orientated area, but

when you're in kind of Hawthorne near Glenferrie Road you're kind of in that more in the action and some people just they just don't like that they want to be a bit more quieter so we kind of make sure that clients understand what pockets are like in HP I mean Kew and Kew East are two completely different areas to buy in and looking at really starts restricting transport options and

Then you go to, yeah, you're going to Camberwell and then you go, okay, do I want more land? You got to push out to Surrey Hills and then you got to go, okay, these are the kind of the give and takes that we have to get a balance of what we're wanting.

Yeah. I mean, I think that's what the best knowledge does, right? It allows people to get the right property to fit someone's actual life. They can all be good assets, but

what's actually going to suit the life a client wants and throwing a different alternative option to them and making sure they don't have to pay in QE there versus what they're pricing on a Q property, for example. You mentioned there around those really long term relationships with agents.

Do you think that gives you a real not only around the understanding of other buyers, but what are some of the things that really helps you when you've known them for so long?

I mean, any property, any decent property, they've had three or four agents through it. So when it's on the market, I just ring up, I'm not jealous of Crave Selling, I ring up Marshall, one of the guys from Marshall Wires, I say, hey, did you guys get through it?

Yep, didn't get the property, but here's all the information of what they want, what the situation is.

You've got some advocates out there that I suppose they treat agents a little bit like the enemy, or they kind of make out that we're there, but they're our greatest resource. I mean, having them on our side, helping us out.

At the end of the day, all they want to do is get a deal done. They just want to get paid. They don't want to be mucked around. So if you can negotiate and kind of, it works for everybody. Yeah.

They'll just, they'll just give you heaps of information, which is gold in this, in kind of this environment, in these areas.

Yeah, I think they will give you information if you obviously got the level of trust there and trust takes time. I feel we've seen new buyers agents unfortunately get rings run around by the agents.

They don't know whether they're going to be doing it in five years or whether they can trust them and it's going to come back to burn them. And you mentioned a very good strategy, that one, right? If you are selling a property, sometimes you get one agent through,

They've probably kept in touch with you every single week for the last 10 years, but often you get multiple opinions on it, right? And speaking to the agents that never got the listing, you know, probably frustrated more than happy to tell you a few things about that.

So it's a pretty competitive world, that real estate world, where they're happy to share that information.

The best thing about real estate agents is it's not really about the clients. It's about the income where we're opposite. We're just about the client. But they are super helpful because they know, I mean, yeah, we've been buying off them for so long and they know what we expect.

They know what we like. They know if there's room to negotiate, they will let us do that because they know that we've got the data, we know what we're doing. And look, sometimes you get there and a vendor won't negotiate. The agent has no concept of how to do that.

But one of the kind of key things that I suppose when dealing with agents and especially with auctions getting passed in and how that gets dealt with there. So typically when an auction gets passed in, especially for these newer buyer advocates, they don't get the real reserve.

The agent gives them a higher reserve than what the actual reserve is. And they typically are there to negotiate back to the actual reserve.

and we know this is this always happens but if it probably gets passed off they don't do that for us i mean they just go they go okay this is where the vendor's at are you able to get there and we can negotiate but i've had situations where i was at an auction and a very very famous real estate agent in the area i was talking beforehand i was just watching it just fun i was just at an auction

He goes, do you mind just waiting out the front for a little bit and then I want to come and tell you about a property. So I was just waiting out the front. Then they took somebody inside, negotiating it, they sold it.

And beforehand, I said to him, I said, what's this going to get? And he said, oh, look, reserves 1.3. They want more, but we don't have a heap of interest in it. Anyway, they passed it in.

come out talking to him then he talked about this property probably about four weeks later i got a person inquired about our services and he said our friend of mine just bought this house recently i'm kind of looking at something like that and i said i was at that auction i said what do you pay for it so i paid 1.55

And he goes, I said, oh, that's a bit much. He goes, yeah, but there was a buyer's advocate at that auction who was going to buy it. And the agent said he wouldn't sell it to that advocate if they took his price. And I was the guy who was standing at the front.

This is a tactic that this agent used to say, hey, there's an advocate out there who's going to buy it if you don't buy it at this price. And that's what they're doing for the newer advocates.

Because the newer advocates, some of them need to make money and they go, this is what you can get a deal done at. And they pay a price that they didn't have to pay.

You know, I'm all for people starting new careers and growing their knowledge. But it is a hard, you know, any job and it's such a job I feel like you get better at every year because it's not that many transactions.

Yeah, you might look at a lot of properties, but the negotiation and value and the process and the missing out, I guess it's down to your sort of client briefs. And I do feel like it takes some time. to sort of get those learnings.

I mean, like I said before, I don't like to talk too much about the market, but I think Melbourne's an interesting one to discuss. You know, obviously it's been a bit in the laggards compared to other states, not pre-COVID times, you know, as a standout performer, obviously Melbourne and the housing market

Now, how I guess the locals feeling, I mean, you know, obviously they've been wanting to sit on their hands a lot, hence why prices haven't been running.

Are they starting now to sort of flip and starting to feel like actually, you know, we do want to get our kids into that school in five years time and, you know, the years have ticked over and we're going to have to start to upgrade and we want to, even though interest rates are high and capacity is low, like we do need to sort of, you know, make a move and do an upgrade.

It's been just a massive correction in Melbourne with all the landlords selling due to land tax and compliance on properties. And a lot of houses, you just can't rent out anymore because you can't make them, some of them can't even become compliant.

So they kind of got, they flooded the market and they were all, none of them were great. So obviously that didn't sell for great prices. People were obviously holding back, kind of what's going on. I think the interest rates dropping did help spur along the market.

Unfortunately, probably going to get bad news in the next week. So I'm going to be really interesting to see what happens if they start putting it back up again, because Melbourne's in a position where it shouldn't be in reality.

We should be ahead of Perth or we should be ahead of

at height and this is where we a lot of investors are coming to melbourne at the moment i mean in reality melbourne's getting flooded with sydney and brisbane investors not really a lot of melbourne people investing in melbourne sydney a lot of sydney people get sydney's massive i mean i've even got like i've been going to properties and sydney advocates are buying properties off agent videos and like you can't even like by the time you try to do your research on it they're gonna eat that what he bought it but yeah so i think

In reality, on paper, it looks like it's a good place to invest because there's pretty much only one way Melbourne can go.

And I think a lot of the land tax issues have been kind of worked through and everyone's kind of comfortable with kind of where things are at, although they're not happy about it. It's just the way it is and just got to kind of move on from that.

you know obviously this podcast all around very experienced local buyers agents and i really don't like when a interstate buyers agent starts you know trying to buy borderless and you know all different states like unfortunately they're the ones who just get sold all the duds by all the agents and it's just profit dangers shouldn't be doing that if you're trying to engage that type of buyer's agent but you know you're right obviously the you know investors hate paying more taxes and they've been very anti-investor down there right you know increasing the quality of

sort of properties to rent, which I don't disagree with in some sense, but it has been anti investor, obviously changing the land tax and reducing the threshold. It's just put another cost on investors. And then you've obviously seen a massive oversupply of apartments and other investors bailing, et cetera.

But rents have been going up. Right. And so are you finding that investors are a really strong part of the market? But the Melbourne is not buying there because they're just trying to wait in to see approach or a little bit less

optimistic about the economy they've probably just still under this COVID sort of haven't got the mojo back like is that what's holding Melbourne people back?

I think it's the government in reality and the our debt and the infrastructure projects that in my opinion some of them are not required and that might be spent other in better places.

I mean, we've got this problem where the government's getting huge pushback on spending all this money on infrastructure that most people don't want, but it's just like talking to a brick wall.

So I think the state is very frustrated with our government because they just turn around and just change the rules on you. They're doing a big thing at the moment to try and change the undercoding laws in Victoria, but talking to agents, they're just going to make agents do things differently.

It's not going to change anything. It'll actually become harder for people to buy because the agents will have to do it differently and get around the way that the government's telling them to do it. But there's no, they're not talking to anyone in the industry about it.

They're just saying, oh, this is the way we're doing it.

What makes great investment markets is sort of stability, right?

And predictability of, you know, and I think you're probably highlighting that, you know, the locals are just, I guess, fed up with the government and not confident in where they're going to pull the economy through, but also the unpredictability of how they keep changing rules. How has it sort of changed?

That eastern suburbs sort of homeowner though, like often if we did Melbourne for a number of years as well, would have their house in Hawthorne and a place down at sort of Portsea or down on the Mornington Peninsula somewhere. Land taxes obviously popped in. Are they sort of less likely?

They sort of want to have that sort of city and coastal pattern and now more, I'll just buy a really nice house. Do you see that sort of mindset shift happening?

people not wanting to have the big portsy houses or as much anymore. And that's the thing we're saying, like the better the house you buy, obviously that's tax free growth.

If you can kind of go down and rent a place over summer, which might cost you 20, $20,000 or something, it should be less than your land tax bill. So I think that, yeah, that's definitely shifted a lot and it's affected those markets.

I mean, you can see that those markets have had a, they had a big drop after the COVID bump and they still haven't recovered completely yet. And I don't think that, yeah, they're not going to ever get back to where it used to be.

Melbourne were very patriotic, which is fair enough.

know and then covered obviously a lot of people refugees out of melbourne to different sort of cities through covert but you're finding that you know a lot of people still though sort of you know less likely to do that as well just due to the affordability and instead of looking at you know leaving melbourne are trying to say actually you know we can have a good life here

Yeah, I think that we are getting people who are wanting to come back into Melbourne, but we're still seeing a lot of people leave to go to Queensland. The amount of people that can do jobs in different states and are going to other states just really is surprising to me.

But Melbourne definitely getting that, we're definitely getting that kind of middle ring, inner ring, people focusing on having a good asset and sitting on it and just kind of taking that kind of growth bump on that, which is why we're looking at like stuff that's done is just a set and forget.

When you think about obviously clients have engaged you, you've helped them really understand their brief, their budget. You mentioned around the needle in the haystack at the start and obviously negotiation, getting information around that with the agents.

I mean, what are some of the other things where clients get to the end of the process, where I wasn't expecting that, but you really added a lot of value on that journey around these points. What are some of the unexpected sort of real value adds that clients mention at the end?

Most clients end up buying something different to what they first imagine they're going to get.

I think that the big thing is, is that once we, or I walk somebody through, I'm very detailed on walking through saying, if a property they like, they might send me a link and I'll take them through it and say, this is why you don't buy it for this, this and this reason.

And they come back and go, oh, wow. Okay. And then even if I'm walking through a property with them, I'd say, okay, this is going to be an issue. It's going to affect you later on. Oh, there's so many little things, just myself, like even I've had three kids grow up, left home.

I've lived in plenty of different places and I've kind of like all that that I've learnt from my time in those kind of things, which have a lot of people when they're doing it, don't actually relate it back to property.

But for me, because I've been in property for so long and I see so many things in property and the really good stuff is in the minority.

So you can kind of pick out, but I suppose where I probably make the biggest difference is in those areas, it's more so the young kind of first home buyers when they're kind of looking to spend, a bit weird you're saying this, but kind of looking to spend kind of one and a half to $2 million.

and what they want to buy is not going to last them. So the biggest thing I say to my first kind of meetings, they say, this is what we want to be, this is what we want to buy.

And for a young couple who are maybe going to get engaged, going to get married, all that kind of stuff, I say, well, okay, when kids coming, okay, how many kids do you want? Okay, well, this house will deal with one child. It won't deal with two children.

And your costs to get into this house and then to sell it is going to be this much money. So the in and out costs of these properties is so high that I kind of say, okay, let's just step forward in thinking and.

probably change location a little bit maybe push out maybe do this but get a house that you can stay in for 10 years rather than five and you will definitely make a big difference to where you're going to be to get to that actual real house you want to buy which is going to be kind of

three to five because if you get them first one wrong it's very hard to upgrade to the next one yeah and i think you've um the very line philosophy right i think being a dad you know going through the journey with kids you start to build a bit of understanding of the challenges you have with with managing you know families and properties and i think you're absolutely right like trying to get something with a long runway and something something can grow into is really good advice

You don't know what you don't know until you've sort of gone on the other side of the fence and you've gone through the journey, let alone what you've sort of also mentioned there around, you know, the reasons why not to buy the property, you know, and I think it's for you, it's obvious, but for them, they just completely hadn't even thought about that being a concern to a lot of other buyers and, you know, and also you living in it might have, you know, misunderstood it.

not even saying that it's got major privacy issues or aspect or whatever it might be or building issues, et cetera. So we've hit some key points there.

Warwick, if you think about that market in particular over the years, where have you sort of seen some clients go wrong with purchasing certain properties in terms of you mentioned they're obviously overpaying, but where are some properties that you think they really have undervalued that aspect that you think that a lot of other buyers want?

I think the biggest mistake in these areas that anyone could make is buying a property without car parking. So many people believe, think it's not going to be a drama, but it really does hold back. And even like going into the future, into electric cars, all that kind of stuff.

Having access to your own charging and everything else. But we've been a massive, that's been massive for us. We've never kind of backed down on that. Single fronted homes. I mean, the only entry into those areas is single fronted homes.

They've got to have parking and I've seen kind of buy ones without car parking. have just, once again, they sell them quicker than what they should have had to sell them. And then there's a change over costs and everything else associated with that. So that's probably one of the major ones.

And then the other one would be the main road. So people think you get more on a main road, which is true, but Main road properties sell really well in a hot market and they sell really badly in a down market.

So, and I always say to people, you don't get to pick when you sell your property. So the, when I say this to a lot of clients, 50% of my clients are gonna getting divorced and they won't choose when they're selling their property. So making that decision right is a big thing.

And like a huge part of our business is actually doing divorce work, helping do vendor advocacy and then buying new houses for clients. So yeah, that's the kind of thing I do really make people understand is that this stuff happens in life.

and then you may not be able to sell a property in the right time or when you want to do it or in the right circumstances. So always buy the best property possible that will sell as easily as possible.

I think that's wisdom there, to be honest, Warwick. I think you're absolutely right. I think you don't choose when to sell. A lot of people think they've got control and if you buy a poor asset, That's when you're taking the risk.

You buy a quality asset and it will sell well often in down markets and obviously sell well in hot markets even better. But you really protect yourself. Whether it's a divorce or whether you want to upgrade your home. And I think you're right around the main roads.

I think we've seen it time and time again. There's always on a hot market, you're a wounded bull, which you mentioned before, and you're just desperate to get in. You go, let's just do it. You know, it'll be okay. We'll put some double closing windows on. But it's just not simple.

Whenever you sell it one day, there's always other people trying to transact and sell. You can easily overcapitalize as well. And you can't do those rentals that you want to do. Parking is a big one, right?

I think with pre-kids, you're sort of happy to walk 50 meters and it takes you a couple of minutes to do a lap. You're okay. As soon as the kids come along, you want to get in that front door as quick as you can.

And you've got so much crap in the car that you don't want to be lugging that everywhere. So yeah, I think they're great points. Warwick, awesome chatting to you. You know, big respect for what you guys do.

And obviously the longs you work as well, you've done over the years and appreciate you coming on.

Great. Thank you.

Thanks so much for listening today. We hope you got lots of value out of it. If you'd like to speak to our guests today, there's links in the show notes on how you can get in contact.

And if you're buying your first home, upgrading, renovating, or need any finance-related queries, obviously we'd love to help. There's links in the show notes to us as a mortgage broker, and we look forward to next week's episode.