Karen Young On Buying Across North Brisbane And The Sunshine Coast

Everyone says buy near a train station. You want to be able to walk to the train. If you want to walk to the train in Caboolture, you want to be a little bit careful because it can be a bit rough and ready. Our motto is buy without regrets.

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Welcome to Street Secrets. I'm Chris Bates and my mortgage broadcast is 2013.

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Welcome to Street Secrets. I'm Chris Bates. Super excited to do this episode. Going to cover a pocket of Australia that is pretty hot always. It's the sort of the north corridor of Brisbane, the sort of the patch between sort of the northern suburbs of Brisbane, which

are feeling closer and closer to the city nowadays and also up towards the sunny coast way. And that sort of Moreton Bay sort of pocket of Brisbane, it's been an investor hotspot for a long time. And it's also a great place to live for owner occupiers as well.

And I'm super excited to be covering this area today because there's a lot going on. And joining me today is Kaz Young from Properties S. How are you doing? Um, very well, thank you, Chris.

Guys, I feel like, um, you know, we've known, I've known your podcast for probably the first property podcast in the country, um, long 15 years ago, probably, I think it was, it would have been 2013 or something. We were.

working together because I was working at Probably Plenty Australia with Dave Johnson, definitely was very early on sort of the value of working with great buyers agents as well. And so that's the history. So you're a very experienced podcaster before podcasts were maybe cooler than they probably are today, to be honest.

So thanks so much for joining us.

Yeah, no worries. We were definitely trailblazers starting in 2011. Was it?

There you go. Yeah, I knew it a long time. So let's, I mean, let's just talk about that as well. So, I mean, when you started in as a buyer's agent, you know, obviously people may not know who you are. Like, when did you join? What were you doing prior?

Just give us a bit of an understanding of your history.

Yeah, look, I've done a few things in my life. I was an intensive care nurse for a while. That was a very long time ago now. But I actually was a, and then I worked in IT as a business analyst and project manager.

And that type of personality is very similar to a property investment personality that by, you know, business analyst type person. And so I got involved in investing, property investing myself. and with that analytical mindset.

And then as I progressed in my own investing, I then developed the buyer's agency business back in 2012, I think it was. So yeah, I was sort of started out buying my own properties and doing my own thing. And then yeah, went on to help other people.

I had a podcast going at that point. just reaching out to other investors, talking about investment and getting started. And then people started reaching out to me and saying, can you help me? I've got some questions. And then that's how it kind of started from there.

So yeah, now we've been going for 14 years.

A big journey, right? 15 years, you've seen it through different markets and has it always been in that sort of part of sort of breezy sunny coast or have you sort of, did you grow up there as well or what's the sort of history there?

No, I actually grew up in Melbourne. So I'm technically a long way from home, but this is definitely home now. I've been here for 15 years.

And so the business was, I was investing in Melbourne, but when I moved up to Queensland, I became very involved in looking at the Queensland market and then the business started from there. And so this is definitely our patch now of where we know really well.

Our office is based on the north side of Brisbane, but I live on the Sunshine Coast. So that pocket all throughout north Brisbane and the sunny coast is very familiar. And myself and my colleague, Tracy, we are the main buyers agency now in our company. And we both know that stretch really well.

Tracy grew up in Brisbane, lives on the coast now. So we've got a really good coverage of those areas.

Yeah, it is a, um, it is a crazy area, right? Like the sort of set it at the intro. Um, and you know, it's just a lot of the change.

It's a lot of development, a lot of people moving there, you know, obviously lifestyle reasons of, you know, the better climate and access to sunny coast, access to work in Brisbane. Like there's a, it's a lot to easy to sell, right? Like that lifestyle.

But, um, what, what's some of the challenges and sort of, how do you think about breaking that pocket up, um, in terms of when you've got clients moving up there that don't know the areas and say, I don't really want to be in this pocket near that school, but.

They just sort of want to go on a bit of a journey. How do you sort of think about it?

Yeah, with clients who are interested in the Sunshine Coast, you've got a mixed bag of people, people who are definitely doing the sea change and they want to come closer to the beach. They want to live in a nicer environment. It is commutable to Brisbane, but it is a bit of a slog.

So people are looking for somewhere where they can easily get on the freeway and get down the road to Brisbane. And I certainly, I did that six days a week for about six years traveling into Brisbane. So, you know, I know it pretty well.

We've had some changes to transport infrastructure over the years, and there's actually more big changes to transport infrastructure coming. So that will really open up the coast a lot more, but it's always been massively fast growing since I've been here.

And the vacancy rates, if you've got rental investment properties and things like that, like zero vacancy rate, you know, it is such a hot market to try and get a rental in.

So from an investment perspective, it's always been really popular because you get, you know, you could always afford quite a reasonable house, a good yield, and it's not going to be vacant. And then a lot of people are buying so that they can potentially live here one day as well.

So that even those people who are investing here are kind of looking with a, often with a mindset of maybe I'll live there one day as well. So, you know, it used to be a lot easier, obviously, pricing changes on the coast have been phenomenal.

So, you know, you could easily get a nice little property for 500 grand. Those days are definitely gone. But the main challenges now are affordability, I think, for the coast, because we are struggling, you know, for housing under a million dollars very hard on the coast now.

I think it's also, the same can be said for Brisbane. So, you know, the last five to seven years have been, you know, a real jump for the property market everywhere.

And the affordability, which used to be the big drawcard for South East Queensland, is starting to not become as prevalent as it was. But lifestyle factors are still appealing. So people want to be here.

Yeah, you've said that really nicely, actually. I think you're right. It was a pocket that was a lot cheaper than, say, you know, the inner ring Brisbane. And, you know, but it's probably had, if not stronger growth, right?

Like it's, you know, some of these areas have gone from $300,000, $400,000 to well over a million dollars from my understanding. Oh, yeah. Yes, the ones near the city that were maybe $600, $700 are now worth $1.5 plus, but the affordability pressure is probably rising there.

But there's also been a lot of new developments and there's a lot of change going on. Like you said, infrastructure, good and bad when you get through it, but

How do you sort of think about those sort of areas and the areas that, yes, their affordabilities may be stretched, but they've just got like even the pockets just got such a lifestyle X factor that will always attract an extra level of buyer?

Yeah, definitely. So there's sort of different pockets around. There's sort of the newer housing. There's quite a bunch of areas where there's had newer housing throughout. So you've got areas like Caloundra South, Aura type region. You've got the Tinyo, which went through a big stretch when the hospital was built there.

And there's actually lots more housing to come around there, as well as a new train station. So that's still going to see lots of activity. And then you've had around the university area, you've got the Palmview and you've got the Sippy Downs sort of region.

So you had lots of new housing over that side of town. And then you've got the old style sort of by the beach on the beach side of Nicklin Way that stretches up through from Caloundra through to Mooloolaba and that's got your beach lifestyle appeal. So there's sort of different pockets.

in terms of pricing wise the beachside stuff and you know is is definitely up there out of reach for quite a few people but still reasonable when you look at it against other markets so you can still get you know one and a half mil you might get something to renovate near the beach um which is still you know by some you know in some comparisons to other markets by the beach that's still pretty good um and then you've got that newer style of housing if you're wanting something more lower

sort of you know lower maintenance easy investment type stuff so there's such a mix bag of what you can actually get and the other thing that's performed really well and i wanted to mention that is and throughout the years the unit market in brisbane as you're probably aware did nothing for many many years and then the last five years or so gone crazy but the unit market on the coast here and particularly up around the noosa area and kings beach area

has always performed well as long as I've been here. And it was always an anomaly, but you can still get in some good, reasonable investments in those unit markets along there. And you're right on the beach, which is pretty crazy.

Like you can get in easily under a million dollars and have a beach view out your window, which is, you know, some areas of the world and Australia, that's not sort of not common.

Yeah. I mean, you've, um, you know, it makes sense, right? Like the, you know, oversupply of apartments and the ability to just sort of build and build and build. And, um, but then, you know, you can't really build everything on the beach, right. With the view.

And so they had that scarcity factor to it and it, a very strong buyer pool, the downsizer, the second holiday home, the second home, you know, the, um, and even, you know, childless couples or singles or divorcees, you know, there's a lot of people that would really love that who have affordability constraint, but they still want lifestyle.

Right. And, um, And if it is a bit of a lower price point, then your yield is probably going to be a bit better. And so for the investor market that does exist, that could be a good thing.

But it's also from a lot of owner-occupier demand in those things as well, just because a lot of people are making those sort of lifestyle shifts, selling out of the house at Brisbane, and they don't really want the backyard anymore. They've sort of done those years of mowing lawns on weekends.

I mean, when you think about the sort of the Morton Bay, is there any sort of areas that you feel that have

You know, you mentioned, and I think that's nice that you've mentioned around the affordability sort of constraints, but any areas where it got a bit too hot with the investors and, you know, because it has, the investor markets had a really strong market and they've got to, not just this north of Brisbane, you know, they've got to parts of Adelaide and, you know, outskirts of Perth and, you know, there's lots of, you know, regional towns.

Is there any pockets that you feel that, you know, obviously vacancy rates are really low, but they just got driven a lot more by the investor market rather than what the fundamentals of the owner occupiers wanted?

Yeah, look, I think that's the case for parts of Moreton Bay, out of Moreton Bay region. Certainly the Sunshine Coast to me, you know, it's a very different prospect to like out of Moreton Bay. So I'm talking like places like Caboolture and Morayfield and Belmere and places like that.

They're very investment heavy out there. And they always have been. There are a lot of own occupiers out there now. And even like, you know, even Caboolture has, you know, if you want a reasonable house in Caboolture now, you're in the 900s, which, you know, is crazy talk. Or it was crazy talk.

It's not anymore. But it was initially driven a lot by investment property. Everyone, you know, picked up cheap, you know, where they get those cheap off the plan things or their accountant was flogging, you know, some developer's dock or something like that.

And so people picked up stuff that did nothing price-wise for a long time. And the vacancy rates out there were, you know...

you know we've had a rental shortage of recent time but certainly the vacancy rates out there weren't anything like Sunshine Coast where you can't get a house you definitely get a house around outskirts of Moreton Bay and there is a big push for even more development out there at the moment so I think we've earmarked I think it's called Woraba which is going to be another sort of 30 or 40 000 homes out further to the west of Caboolture so there's lots of land out there to keep on going

And I think that we'll temper that rental availability and stuff like that. There'll always be stuff available, but those areas that are closer into where the facilities are, the older style areas, or ones that were developed a good 10 plus years ago,

those are probably a bit more sought after because you're closer to the facilities. And it's a bit like that everywhere. You know, when they build a brand new suburb, the outskirts of it are kind of not really close to anything.

So you end up with lots of investment properties, not a lot of facilities, vacancy rates are a bit meh. But the stuff that's older, closer in, can often do quite well.

Yeah, I do notice it's like everyone's got a plane to Brisbane before and hired a car and drove to Noosa. And when you go along there, you just see there's a lot of land, there's a lot of ability.

And I guess the challenge has always been they just haven't been able to build fast enough, right? It's just such a fast-growing...

part of the country where a lot of people are trying to escape the east coast cities and you know they're wanting to move up to brisbane and you know that's gone on turbocharged the last five years but there's still a lot of land out there and um you know desire to build and so i think you just gotta be really careful and you know where you are buying up that's where someone like a local specialist like yourself

can really guide them around the, okay, yeah, it's a bit cheaper here, but these are some of the challenges. And these are things to note that if you are selling in five, 10 years time, you might want to be aware of.

And, you know, infrastructure is always never at the pace of the development. Unfortunately, the schools, the, even the greenery, the shops, it's always an afterthought often. So when you say a bit closer cities, you're talking more like the sort of the North Lakes into Kalinga and even a bit closer to the city.

Is that where you're talking much more established or where the pockets?

Yeah, like if you, around that Moreton Bay area, certainly like if you can get into Kalanga, Strathpine, Petrie, Brake Park, you've got to follow that northern train line around those areas. And we were buying there like back when that train line was actually being extended from Petrie to Kippering.

That's probably going back, I don't know, eight or 10 years now. But they were, you know, those train stations were opening at the time and investors were really getting into that corridor, became very, very popular.

And anything around there, because you are quite close to transport, is a good option if you can get it. And you can still get some older style houses around there. Everything kind of is about a million dollars give or take these days around there.

And even an entry-level property around there is going to be $950 or so in Strathpine or Petrie or something like that. But if you go out further... away from the train line, then you're getting the newer houses like in, you know, Dacobin and stuff like that.

You'll find that they're all smaller blocks of land. The older stuff I like because it's generally bigger blocks of land. You're on 600 blocks back in the smaller stuff, in the newer stuff. You're in, you know, sometimes you're even in 300 square metre blocks.

And the land is obviously what people want to grab, but it's sort of horsed up the courses too. So for some investors, they want that higher yielding property, they want the newer low maintenance property, and they're happy to forego some of the land size for those things.

And particularly now we're looking at changes in the way that investment works.

you know, current budget suggestions happen, it may change the style of investing that people are looking at doing.

But predominantly over the last, you know, 14 years I've been doing it, people are looking for land and they're looking for, you know, bigger land sizes and stuff like that, which is usually the older stuff.

Yeah, the big solid brick houses on the big 600 squawks on the quieter streets in those suburbs.

Yeah, and potential. You can put potentially secondary dwellings and things like that on some of those properties. That's getting harder and harder now in terms of a lot of those properties are snapped up or they're too expensive to think about that. But that's always what we were after was the bigger stuff.

How do you think about the, it's not a north or south debate I want to kick off, but the benefits of living in the sort of northern parts of Brisbane, obviously the airports there and, you know, like how do you sort of, why do people want to go that way versus say go that way, go south or then go or west?

Like what are some of the big draw cards that people get attracted to?

For investment or for homeowners?

Owner occupiers mainly, yeah.

Yeah. Owner occupiers, the south side is very nice, south side of Brisbane, but it's always been more expensive than the north. So affordability, I think, has been a big thing.

So, you know, you sort of get on the south side of Brisbane, you get really nice suburbs, really nice suburbs as you go out, and then suddenly you're in Logan. which is a different demographic.

And so it sort of became the case where, well, I want to live in a nice suburb that's reasonably close to the city, but on the south side where I can afford it is now Logan and people don't necessarily want to live there.

Now, some of that's changed as well now, but on the north side, that's why a lot of the stuff that we were buying closer into the city was on the north. It was just more affordable. And there was some really good suburbs.

And the transport on the south side, you've got the Pack Motorway, which is a debacle. I guess on the north side, you could argue the Bruce's, but probably not as bad. It was just affordability, I think, that drove a lot of owner-occupiers. And that north side of Brisbane then caught up price-wise.

And there was still lots of, in the last 14 years that I've been buying around the north side of Brisbane, we were still buying really good

you know, good character homes that people could renovate in a nice suburb, like in the avenues in Kedron and places like that, in Grange or in, you know, Alderley, places where there was nice character. But a lot of that pricing has definitely caught up.

But I think affordability is the main thing that a lot of the people were looking at the north side for. It has got lots of facilities too.

I mean, there's obviously, you know, big shopping centres and, you know, your easy commute out if you want to drive out to the Sunshine Coast and stuff like that.

Yeah, and it's quite landlocked, right, if you've got the hills and the, you know, it's not like there's, I mean, there is when you get further, the land opens up, but in that sort of inner north pocket, it's funny you also say that, you know, naturally people is, right, there's these natural barriers of where they want to be and the style of home changes and just through naturally that's, you know, the size of the city back when they were building those type of homes and the old Queenslanders and then the whole,

suburbs sort of shifts and it sounds like people have hit that and then they're actually, no, where can we get a type of property that's a bit better bang for buck for what we are? And I think that's that sort of nudge effect.

Buyers are, while they are also looking for a certain lifestyle, they're willing to go to different parts of the city to achieve that, right? They're not so much pigeonholed on a certain pocket.

Yeah, and there's a lot of them. There's some really good owner-occupier pockets on the north side of Brisbane or in Moreton Bay. So, for example, Sandgate Brighton. Brighton's always been a real underdog, I think, and it's like a real kind of sleeper. that was so well placed.

I mean, it's definitely, of course it's gone up, but even now you can still get a reasonable property in Brighton. I was looking at one online last night that was, I think it was a two or three bed, a little post-war type house on a good size block of land.

It was under a million bucks. And that's,

you know that's really that's right next door to sand gate there's so many facilities there's a train line in you're on the water um and likewise with the morton bay peninsula area like that's a great area for owner occupiers um it's a nicer demographic i guess than than if you went sort of inland and across a bit where it's the same affordability you're on the water you've lots of gentrification there's lots of renovations there's lots of developments happening there and you're right on the water so there's still good pockets

for owner-occupiers in that sort of one to one and a half mil around there.

Yeah, it's interesting, right? Because before that would have, you know, it was all about close to the city, you know, easy to get to work, you know, a lot of, but, you know, Brisbane's changing and people are, you know, life's, the way we live's changing as well, right?

And so that sort of beach life a little bit, which is quite hard to get in Brisbane, right? It's one of the, it's a river city, it's not a beach city. And, you know, that sort of Redcliffe sort of pocket area is quite desirable, right?

You still get to the city, but you still get the beach life. Is that what a lot of sometimes the, say, Sydney buyers, they get attracted to that pocket?

Yeah, the fact that you can get, like I'm actually doing a reno project on a property at the moment in Margate, which is in the Redcliffe Peninsula. And just, it's a real area that you can appeal to home buyers.

We've got a house that we're doing up, which is one of those big high set type Queenslander you know, orange brick 70s type house, but it's on a massive, you know, 680 square metre block of land, massive family home, and you're five minutes to the waterfront.

Like you can't get that for this sort of money in other locations. So it's definitely, I think, a great pocket down there for own occupiers.

Yeah.

Is there any sort of, obviously you mentioned around the sort of new housing sort of, you know, changes, but is there any sort of, you know, it was, Brisbane had an issue with the apartments could have built and obviously prices have gone up a lot for the apartments, but is there any sort of pockets where, you know, every city is going through this, you know, densification, right?

And, you know, and they're going to have to build a lot. So what are the sort of the pockets that you're a bit nervous when clients are wanting to sort of head towards and you sort of have to, I can't highlight where,

You know, those parts are going to change a lot over the coming years.

Yeah. That's an interesting one for housing or for apartments?

Well, both really. I mean, you've mentioned a lot of the housing stuff, which is probably a bit further to the north a little bit, but there's, you know, obviously a price of apartments, you know, there's affordability, right? There's going to be a lot more stock coming on.

I mean, is there any pockets, you know, that you feel that they might be having to build a lot? Or do you think it's going to be still stuck around a lot of the inner city, a lot of the apartments?

I still think it's probably around the inner city. On those sort of outskirts, like, for example, somewhere like Everton Park, that's about 10km from the city. There's quite a few townhouse developments that have happened there over recent years. They've sold at pretty good prices.

People bought them up as investments or homes because they couldn't afford to live quite Yep, that's right. Too close to the city, they couldn't afford a house. But there are quite a few of them. And the size of the development, I think, really matters.

I've been looking for some clients recently, and they had quite a very modest budget, like the sevens sort of thing. And that's really tough. And I went to some places for them that were in like... Burpingarry or even Caboolture, there's lots of high res stuff happening in those areas.

And the size of those blocks, they were townhouse lots. Even Mango Hill, I think they overdid the townhouses on the train side of Mango Hill, where you're in and you go in there and it's a townhouse in 128 lots. And they've been built cheap.

They've been built just volume. It's just pure volume and there's nothing appealing about them. So I think I tend to sort of, when I'm looking at stuff for people, looking at, like you said, what's the saturation going to be like, but also what are you building?

Like if you're building, if you're in a lot of six townhouses and it's an attractive little group of six townhouses. I can see value in that for future investors, for future homeowners who are priced out of housing. But I don't like the idea of one in 128. You know what I mean?

So it depends a lot on the actual development that's happening. And because developers, obviously, they're trying to make money, cutting things into smaller lots and making them cheap and cheap-looking works. But as a long-term investment, it's not a favourite of mine, I'd have to say.

Yeah, no, that's exactly, that's, um, you highlight a really good point.

You know, we went to housing and the apartment's going to be CDC, but the prison has got those bigger blocks, which is great, you know, when you're in there, but you know, if those blocks are going to get cut up, it's what are they going to get cut up into?

And, um, you know, is it, is it going to happen on mass? Is it going to happen a few small ones here and there? Not a big problem.

And, you know, some pockets are probably like you say, you know, are probably getting a bit of the smaller, cheaper, you know, nothing scarce about them. And, um, Yeah, you just got to be aware of where those things might be.

And, you know, and also if you are looking to buy those, just maybe be a bit more careful, I guess, is probably the sort of the point there.

When you talk about, you know, guiding someone on finding the right pocket, say owner occupiers on the Moreton Bay, like what are the things that, you know, you really try to drill deep down onto in helping them actually figure out the right pocket? Let's say they're willing to explore different areas.

Yeah, we talk to them a lot. At the start of a project, we talk a lot about where they want to be, obviously, like what's important for you. Do you commute into the city? Things like that. But we also talk a lot about what...

uh like what level of property are you interested like some people would rather have the big block of land and they can happily do some work and some people don't want a bar of doing any work and they'll forego some land size on that and then that really then determines on location as well because it might be all good and well to say i want a new style house in the middle of red cliff but i want to be on the beach side of oxley ave

That's great. And I want a big block of land for my kids to play. Most of the stuff over there is 400. It's not 600 right near the beach on the beach side. So you've got to work out like what's important and also what level of work you're willing to do.

Like if you don't want to do any renovation, but you've only got a million dollars and you want to be on the beach side, that's not going to happen either.

So a lot of it is about working out what's important, what level of work you're willing to do, what compromises you're willing to make. Like if you want a four by two, it's probably not going to happen there. It's going to be a three by two, if you're lucky.

So it's all about working out what they want and what they're willing to do.

for it or what we're willing to compromise on um we're very big on setting realistic expectations up front in a project because there's no point you know saying yeah yeah we can we can find that we can find that and we know it doesn't exist there's no point so educating people about the market and what they can afford in it um and helping them to understand what's actually really important sometimes people get stuck on little things um little things that are easily fixable

It sounds like you've got a bit of renovation experience as well, just obviously doing something yourself. And I think we are in a bit of a world where, you know, people have got to get creative, right?

Like you've got to get, you know, you're not going to get the beautiful place that's got great bones that you're going to be able to sink lots of cash into because, A, whether borrowing the money, whether you want to, the cost of trades, cost of build, right? And so...

you've got to be really careful that you buy an asset that can be probably fixed to the life you want and cost efficiently, right? And it's the right size and the house is on the right side of the block and et cetera.

So it sounds like you really try to help clients figure out, is this the right pocket to suit them from a structural point of view? Is there any sort of major issues when you think about where buyers just don't know what they don't know? They get up there, they're

They sort of look and they go, oh, the locals just don't like that type of property or that pocket, or they really, there's some issues in that part of the suburb for these reasons.

Is there any sort of like, you know, little minefields that sometimes buyers get caught out with because they just have it, didn't know what the locals knew?

Yeah, definitely. And I see that a lot in some of the lower socioeconomic areas. So if you're looking out at places like Caboolture or Moorayfield or Bellamy, like a really good example, everyone says buy near a train station, you want to be able to walk to the train.

And if you want to walk to the train in Caboolture, you want to be a little bit careful because it can be a bit rough and ready. So maybe not being right at the train line is maybe a better thing in Caboolture.

because it is a bit rough and ready and you may not want to live in that area. So I had someone recently who was buying a first home to live in and they liked it. It was actually this very example. They liked this little property. It was a really good one.

I went to have a look at it. It was a great little property once you were in the door.

But I sat outside my car for a little while, for about an hour actually, because I was early to this appointment and I was doing some work in the car and watching the people walking up and down the street.

And I thought, I don't think I would feel particularly safe walking up and down this street, to be honest. I wouldn't want to put her in that position. I think knowing what pockets of an area, and as I said, particularly in a lower socioeconomic area, you can get caught out with that.

A lot of people buy sight unseen, cheap investment properties and things like that. You can really shoot yourself in the foot with stuff like that if you don't know the area and you don't know from street to street, it can be quite different.

So you want to know which pockets have higher government housing or are just dodgy looking. You will drive down there and the houses are beat up and there's cars on the lawn and there's a drug convention on the corner.

so you want to be careful as like that um and that's where i think having someone local is very important for that sort of stuff yeah because cities um and suburbs do gentrify right and you know they change over time but some gentrify much faster than others right they they

you know, there's a different type of buyer pool, they renovate, they take more, you know, and I think it's just, you've got to be careful that assuming the whole pocket's all equal, right?

And particularly when a market's been driven by affordability, you know, previously, and it shifts to, you know, something a bit more, you know, aspirational, I guess, and different type of client, you've got to be careful because you could have found the one that hasn't gone up as much, you know, from an investment point of view.

And also you could find that you buy in there, you just burn so much cash in sort of stamp and selling and, you know, getting stuck there. And so I think that's where the good local experience is there and to sort of guide you on the journey.

How does it sort of, you know, not so much talking about these new interstate sort of borderless, you mentioned some points there, but now working with the agents in that area, right? Like, they would have been bombarded, I imagine, with buyer's agents all the time.

But, you know, you've got a really established brand, you've got a lot of, you know, they know that you've been pre-boom. How does that really help give you a bit of an edge where the agents, you know, they know you, they've worked with you for a long time.

And so, you know, they don't take, I guess, running rings around you like potentially others.

Yeah, that can be true to some extent for sure. And we've got relationships with people that I've known for 14 years and that's great. And the other thing that it helps us with is that a lot of things get sold to people who aren't local that I wouldn't buy.

Um, and so I'll ring up an agent and say, Hey, what do you got? And he might say nothing you would buy. I'll sell that to the Sydney blokes or something like that.

Um, the people who aren't going to look at it, who don't know the area that well, and they'll flog off stuff to them that they know. in an area that I wouldn't buy or it's in a condition that I wouldn't buy.

So it helps to cut through some of the noise of stuff that's around because they know me. They know that I'm, you know, I'm making sure that I'm getting the right things for the client. I'm checking the state of the property.

I don't want to buy them a nightmare that's going to just exist for 10 years and drain all their cash. So having those relationships is really good because they will reach out to us, tell us what they got, but they'll also tell us if it's, you know, of a suitable quality.

So that's helpful.

Yeah, I just, I guess it was one of the fears, one of the fears I saw when I launched this pod was just that I could see that, you know, I just know the value of being on the ground, knowing the market, knowing the agents and, you know, and unfortunately...

It's one of those pockets where if you've got a lot of investor demand, then the agents, like you said, they'll know the buyer. It's not a local. It's not a local BA that's also working at home buyers. It's one of those interstate buyers agents who wants to see it on a video.

And I think that's quite a dangerous thing because they end up getting a property that you know, A, isn't that desirable to the local market. If they do want to sell it and the market's not hot, they sort of cool off, right?

I mean, the Brisbane market has had a really big run, but, you know, it had some tough years there, right?

Like, you know, I think when you were sort of 2012 to probably 2020, you know, it was a Brisbane market's going to kick, it's going to kick, it's going to kick, and it didn't, right? It took a long time to get going.

And, you know, how did that sort of longer-term experience, both a boom market and a

you know a not booming market how's that helped you uh definitely it definitely started helped me at the start because as i developed my business it helped because we were in a slower market then and it gave me a lot of time to get to know people get to know you know agents because they've got a lot more time for you when it's a slower market there's a lot more relationship building and a lot more relationship to and fro

Whereas in a heated market, they're just selling things left, right and centre to someone who randomly rings them from Melbourne and doesn't even want to fly out, doesn't care less because things are going off the shelf. So it gave me time to get to know people and to develop that relationship.

And Brisbane, even though it wasn't like back in those days, I think Sydney, Melbourne would go big boom and a quiet off, big boom and a quiet off. But Brisbane just did a nice, steady, slow growth. which is actually quite good. And then obviously post COVID, it went crazy.

We already had all those relationships set up. And the other thing that we saw around post COVID is the flourishing market of new buyers agents into the space who didn't really know the market that well. They were there to sort of just as a bit of arbitrage of the property market.

But then once that kind of boom mentality went out of it again, and it's sort of settled more into a normal property market, they all left again because they didn't know how to, they didn't have the relationships. They didn't know how to work well with agents properly.

They were just in there like throwing offers in, buying stuff quick. They didn't know how to find clients. They didn't know how to look after those clients properly. Whereas a lot of our stuff, we've been working for a long time, we've got repeat clients, we've got referrals because of those relationships.

So it was nice to have a quieter start. It was really interesting to have a massive boom. It's actually nice to have a more normal market where you can just behave in a normal fashion rather than trying to buy in a really, really heated market is hard. Back at post-COVID, we had...

A lot of the auctions went online. They had online auctions that weren't really auctions. And you'd have to put an offering on a platform online. And I remember one property out in the Logan area, it had something like 84 offers on it. And we were trying to buy on this online platform.

There's no talking to the agent. There's just this thing. And I don't think that was a healthy way to act in the market.

yeah yeah i would have found that extremely hard personally i think um you know when you know that you want to buy a good asset for your clients but then also you know that it's really hard to buy them and then you also got the markets moving really fast and so you know if you you try to do the right thing and look after the clients and make sure you be patient and get a better asset and the market's pricing him out it's a really hard one to deal with particularly when prices are going way beyond and

what you think is fair value because buyers agents are just sort of overpaying just to get it off the books. And I'm not saying you, but you know, other, you know, competitors, for example. And yeah, I think it's a really hard market like that.

And that's where I think, you know, you, you've really got to be doing all those DDs and,

You know, you've got all your local relationships with building and past and all the trades and, you know, and sometimes you can sort of figure out, okay, it's not perfect, but it's not a property you're going to have to sink a lot of cash into.

And it's probably one of the best options you've got, you know, without a super hot market. So I'm sure it was a tough market.

Yeah, being a more sort of a smaller boutique agency is really, I think it allows us to deliver the type of service that we want to deliver, where we actually get to look after. We don't do 50 clients at once. We do, you know, five sort of thing.

And we're very involved with them and we have a good team around us. Like you mentioned, we've got really good, our property manager was actually just crowned Real Estate Industry of Australia's Property Manager of the Year. So that was pretty exciting. down in Melbourne.

So we've got a team and like we, you know, we had a property coming on recently where I've just managed a renovation of it. So some people have a property sitting there, needed work. I've managed to reno, we put a new bathroom, a new laundry and some other things.

And now we're going to put that on the market. So we're kind of like a place you can come to seek advice, to find a property, to get it renovated if you need, to get it managed. So people can we can help them on a whole journey.

And I like us being that sort of boutique agency who can, who can do all of that rather than a quick, I'll get a buy for you so I can buy for the other 49 people. So.

Yeah, no, we've seen the pitfalls of that. Um, unfortunately, and, uh, you know, I think that's the power of boutique, right? It's, um, You know, and it's way more sustainable than, you know, clients for life. And I think a lot of people will probably listen to this in that Morton Bay.

They might have bought investments there, you know, and they might need some sort of a second opinion. I think you'd be in very safe hands talking to you and your team. Or they might be moving in a state or in Brisbane and just sort of exploring.

And I think, you know, reaching out to yourself and the team would be a wise decision. Thanks so much for coming on, Kaz. One of the original podcasters in the country. I appreciate your time. Oh, thank you, Chris. I really appreciate yours. Thank you. Thank you.

Thanks so much for listening today. We hope you got lots of value out of it. If you'd like to speak to our guests today, there's links in the show notes on how you can get in contact.

And if you're buying your first home, upgrading, renovating, or need any finance-related queries, obviously we'd love to help. There's links in the show notes to us as a mortgage broker, and we look forward to next week's episode.