Reece Marini on What Newcastle Became, Suburb by Suburb

There are significant opportunities across Newcastle now as well that offer them the ability to relocate to Newcastle and then be able to find employment where they can still derive a solid income in a market that's relatively affordable and they've got the lifestyle aspects of being close to the beach, close to the city.

Our motto is buy without regrets and so... If you can buy a property that will serve you for 10 years as opposed to three years, that will serve you well and something... Buying a great property today, that's not just what it's about.

It's also getting something that could be ripe for improvement when the time is right for that investor or for the next buyer. You think about, right, lifestyle, what's important to you? How do you get to work? What do you need for your family? What amenities like parks and shops?

Then you look at the budget.

Welcome to Street Secrets. I'm Chris Bates and my mortgage broadcast is 2013. And in this podcast, we're going to be interviewing Australia's leading buyer's agents, ones with decades of experience, have the local insider knowledge on the street, and can really help you with your buying process.

No matter whether you're a first home buyer, upgrade or investor, in this podcast, you'll get access to Australia's leading buyer's agents' minds every week on a Thursday. What's the word on the street?

Welcome to Street Secrets. I'm Chris Bates. This episode's going to be a bit different in a bit of sense because it's a location I know really well. Growing up there, we're going to talk about Newcastle, which has really changed a lot over the time since I was there as a kid.

And today in the studio, we've got Reece Marini. How are you doing? Good, Chris. Yourself? I'm doing well.

Look, Rhys, we've known each other for a long time, over a decade, which we spoke about prior to coming on air and when we're both in the financial advice industry and both had a passion around property decisions and for people who don't know you and I guess your history coming into being a BA and a bit more about you and where you're living.

So can you please just give us an understanding of how long you've been around the finance industry and particularly what made you make the pivot into becoming a buyer's agent?

Yeah, it's been over a decade now, I guess, in some capacity of being in the financial services space or a related field. So yeah, originally came out of the financial services industry. We've known each other for a significant amount of time, as well as others in that space. I think the

The work that I did in that financial services space initially started in the insurance space, then moving more into the high net wealth clients and supporting them and their children and the transition of wealth across those different generations with my time at PKF Wealth. But there are limitations with financial advice.

I think one of the biggest asset classes, and I'm not telling anybody anything they don't know, but From a property perspective, it's very hard to provide advice in that area when you're in the financial services space.

So with those clients that we're supporting, and there is aspects that you can support in the financial services space with insurance and superannuation, investments outside of those areas, but because it is such a significant asset base for those that are accumulating wealth,

I saw there an opportunity at that point in time given some of the work that I was doing with Pete as well throughout that period with mutual clients or some work that Pete was doing for myself, transitioning into that buyer's agency space, utilizing my background as a financial advisor and supporting those clients in building out strategic property plans to be able to help them in securing the right assets.

to get to the outcome that they were seeking, which in many cases was to be able to derive an income from that portfolio base at a point in time.

Look, we could talk about the benefits of having a financial advice history coming into an industry. I mean, the pivot's basically what we've made as well. We've come from advising to mortgages and property guidance conversations, a very similar one. sort of you've gone down.

I do think it gives you a unique skill set because you're sort of looking at things a lot more deeper in terms of how does this property fit into someone's longer term plan.

You're asking, I guess, questions that are very comfortable for you to ask that other buyer's agents might not be as confident to ask just because it's not your first rodeo and

I think it also gives you a little bit of a skill set to think about how does this decision lead to later life?

Because you've sort of seen where people end up in their 50s and 60s and 70s and 80s and an understanding of the complexities that finances have across sort of family dynamics.

But it's not to say there's a right or wrong way coming to buyer's agency, but I do think we've had lots of people on the podcast have all had different ways in and They do give you a unique element to it. But let's talk about Newcastle. I grew up there, right?

And it's changed a lot since I left in 2005. Now, when you think about it, because I think you grew up there, then around the Central Coast, how do you think it's changed over the years? And where is it sort of sitting as a city slash town now?

Yeah, it's changed significantly. It's not the mining town it once was sort of 15, 20 years ago. There's been significant gentrification across Newcastle in its entirety. There's obviously a lot of both private and government capital. that has gone into the area.

You've only got to look at the east end of Newcastle, which has had now around a billion dollars spent on the east end of Newcastle. You've had significant upgrades of John Hunter Hospital. It's got now eight, 900 million spent on that particular facility, research facilities in the area as well.

You look at Newcastle Airport, which has had $250 million injected into that to open up international airways to Southeast Asia. So there's significant amount of capital going into that area and that obviously drives the economic base and employment opportunities in Newcastle as a whole.

So where mining and sort of the steelworks that drove a lot of the employment in that area over that time, now it's switched with health being the largest employer in the Newcastle area.

So there's also significant amount of work projected to come on with the Broadmeadow upgrade as a sort of strategic position. And Newcastle as a whole has changed in the fact that it's now the second largest city in New South Wales.

Yeah, let's talk about also the university because it's a big operation and a lot of people do explore Newcastle, particularly people who are from Sydney. And how do you think that plays into things as well?

I think it's a good opportunity to retain those individuals that grew up in Newcastle where they don't have to now go down to Sydney for further education, they can retain the lifestyle of Newcastle, they can continue to be educated and we can continue to retain those individuals to further drive our economy.

One thing I've even noticed is a lot of people went there for uni, let's say they're from Sydney and then they enjoyed it.

They've gone to Sydney, they've sort of been priced out of Sydney and they're like, oh, you know, I've got this sort of love of Newcastle and it's changed a lot since I went to uni there sort of 10, 15 years ago.

I mean, one of the things, obviously, I can talk from personal experience. I mean, I left when I was sort of 19, 18, to be honest, and a lot of friends did as well.

And, you know, I've met them over the years and they've come to Sydney and then they've got a bit older, kind of in their thirties and

you know, things are quite tough in Sydney and they've got a bit of flexibility with work and even their work prospects in Newcastle have sort of increased dramatically. And all of a sudden, you know, the kids have come along and they're like, hang on a second, I want to be close to family.

And they have this desire to sort of move back. They sort of fall in love with sort of where they grew up.

Have you sort of noticed that as well, that yes, you've got new people who have never lived in Newcastle moving up there, but you've also got this returning sort of, you know, trained sort of higher income sort of Novocastrian that's sort of moving back.

We do and we support a lot of those individuals that now have young families and they're coming back to Newcastle because they've got a love for Newcastle as you spoke to.

They've grown up there, they've moved away, they might have gone overseas, they might have lived in Sydney for a period of time or down in Melbourne.

and with the the change in in remote work that we saw throughout that covered period that's been fairly sticky for a lot of industries where we're seeing those clients that are coming back to newcastle so they've got the ability if they need to be down there one or two days a week if they're retaining their sydney employment and they're still deriving a solid income from that sydney employment which they can utilize in a market that's relatively more affordable

than the Sydney market, there's opportunity to do so. But to your point, from an employment perspective, there are significant opportunities across Newcastle now as well that offer them the ability to relocate to Newcastle and then be able to find employment where they can still derive a solid income.

in a market that's relatively affordable and they've got the lifestyle aspects of being close to the beach close to the city amenities they can get out to the Hunter fairly quickly to the wineries there's multiple opportunities for those that are returning yeah I think that's the big shift I've seen you know more people more businesses

that creates a lot of opportunity, you know, a lot of construction, fast growing sort of, you know, the construction industry, the trades industry, you know, the health industry with John Hunter, more people need more health.

And then, you know, I think a lot of people have sort of moved back and, you know, wanted to bring new ideas in. So then the the entertainment industry and all the lifestyle around the city has changed as well.

I think that's created the gentrification, which encourages people to want to invest in their homes and bring wealth to Newcastle. I think it's changed a lot, right? It was probably a bit of a sleepy sort of country town mentality 20 years ago, but it's much

more vibrant and it's growing a lot in terms of the investment within the sort of inner cities is completely different. It got wiped out with a 1990 earthquake, I think it was. And then no one wanted to be near the inner city.

They were sort of very quiet, but it's completely shifted, even with investments like the light rail in the city to sort of activate movement a lot more.

To your point in relation to those larger organisations that have come to Newcastle, we've just got PKF there, which is a tier two accounting advisory firm. They've been there for a significant amount of time, but you've got KPMG that have opened offices in Newcastle through that COVID period.

So there's a lot of opportunity for employment.

and to your point in relation to the city itself and the further gentrification of the area there is a bit of a nightlife aspect to the Newcastle region now and you can get out to the Hunter fairly quickly when there's shows and the like playing on and events out there so there is good opportunities across Newcastle for that lifestyle in relation to those types of events but also

the real draw card is, is the beaches and the proximity to the beaches across the different suburbs within the Newcastle area.

One thing that drives prices a lot is scarcity of land, right? And so if Newcastle was in the middle of the country and you had a hundred Ks this way, a hundred Ks that way, you would find that

That would put a real limit on growth because people will be like, well, I'll just buy down the road because there's a new housing estate. But Newcastle is sort of landlocked. You've got obviously the Hunter River, which a lot of people don't want to cross that.

It's a bit of a challenge in terms of getting across it. You've got to sort of go a lot out to come back in. You've got beaches. We're right built on the coast.

And then you've got national parks and hills and topography that don't make it easy to build on a lot of land. And as everyone wants to get into the city, congestion can be quite a problem, right?

It is quite quick to get around, but at some points, particularly in working hours, it can get quite busy. Is that some of the challenges that people sometimes underestimate when they look at Newcastle just on a satellite?

Yes, I think if you look at it from a broader perspective and you take into consideration the time it takes you to get around Sydney when you're within close proximity to the city.

When you look at Newcastle, even if you are a little bit further out and you're Mayfield or you're at Waratah or a little bit further you've still within a 20-minute drive maximum to the CBD and not too dissimilar to get to the beaches.

So although densification and to your point it is a fairly landlocked region with the beaches to the east and your national parks scattered throughout etc.

You are within proximity to all of those amenities within a 20 minute drive, which is significantly different and improves the lifestyle compared to that of Sydney when you've got all of those opportunities, whether it be the beaches or the CBD or employment within that proximity.

Yeah, I think Newcastle, as it's growing sort of city and it feels weird saying that because I always think it should be a town, but it sort of has moved up the needle.

But there is a lot of new estates that are getting built, particularly as you start going out towards sort of Maitland and you start going quite a bit further away from the town centre. What's your thoughts on that? Because it has been

a lot of investors going into these areas and what are some of the dangers, particularly as you've sort of seen the longer term trend of sort of those new housing estates that have been popping up?

It's not an area that we focus on. If you're going out to those greenfield estates like Huntley and the like, I think there is significant challenges because there isn't scarcity of land in those areas.

You can continue to, and developers will continue to release land out there, which is as those supply continue to come to market, the capital growth in those areas isn't going to perform as well.

A lot of investors tend to go out to those areas because they are obviously at a lower price point sort of sub 900.

What we tend to prefer and look there's pockets of Maitland and East Maitland and it is one of the fastest growing LGAs at the moment in the region because of the price point and there is been some significant investment in those areas.

with Maitland Hospital that's recently come online etc so there is opportunity there and you're still sort of 40-50 minutes out of Newcastle so and you're at a lower price point of sub 900 in those areas for some particular sort of original type home but what we're tending to see at the moment is a lot of those young professional families that have grown up in the middle to inner ring of Newcastle

are preferring to look at options at a lot from a lower density perspective so townhouses in merriweather for example in a line of five or six where you can still pick up a good quality asset for sort of nine nine hundred and fifty thousand where a detached property in that area is going to be for an original home in an okay location is going to cost you between 1.8 and sort of 2 million dollars so there's a significant affordability constraints from a detached market

there is opportunities in those lower density options where there is a value gap that is starting to compress because what we're seeing at the moment is the lower 25th percentile of that market is performing quite well because of those significant value gap between the two and we're now seeing that start to compress.

There is significant number of individuals across different demographics whether it be investors, whether it be those first home buyers or those that are downsizing that are looking for those particular opportunities in the market at the moment.

Yeah, I think people who've grown up in Newcastle look at Merriweather Beach and think it's one of the best beaches in the world, and it probably is up there. But if they move back to Newcastle, they won't live near Merriweather, right? That's often the way that their mentality is.

And by making in their mind a compromise for the commute and moving back there, I want to move back and know that I can live where I want to live. I think that's shifted in the last five years because Newcastle has a huge price run and

They're almost saying, well, yeah, I can't afford that because it's run, but it's still pretty amazing because Newcastle has got a lot of beautiful looking homes, a lot of beautiful street shapes, wider streets, established nature and trees and a lot of Federation and type of beautiful looking homes that in Sydney would be and on decent block sizes that

aren't sort of 200, 300 that they'd be looking at in Sydney. And so I do think a lot of buyers have gone back and said, oh, yeah, I'm willing to sort of explore, go to Hamilton or go to Adamstown or go to Lambton.

And they sort of are heading back to sort of where they grew up often. And I think that's one of the charms of Newcastle is it has got that sort of long history. It's not full of all these new townhouses and overdevelopment.

It's grown sort of slowly and you've got your parks and your pools and your sport and a lot of the things that a really established sort of town has beyond just sort of fast growing estates.

Yeah, I agree and they are willing to make that sacrifice. They would rather make a sacrifice on the type of dwelling that they are living in. They don't want to go out to Huntly. They don't want to go out to Maitland or East Maitland if they don't have to.

They would rather compromise on the dwelling itself to retain the lifestyle aspects and the reasons why they're moving back to Newcastle, which is the lifestyle.

Yeah, I think the airport is a big element to it as well. The expansion of that, creating more flight, people who still want to be able to get around and travel. And I think that airport is just a huge benefit. Also the train, right?

If you do need to sort of get to Sydney and you do want to not drive, then you've got that sort of predictable sort of route, even though it's their older trains are getting upgraded.

We're not talking about the fast train that may or may not happen in the future, but something tangible today that is an option, right? And that's often forgotten about that is an option for people if they do want to commute, they don't have to drive.

Yeah.

have to drive I mean it's a it's a decent train ride but for sort of two two and a half hours depending on where you're going and how many times you've got to get down there a week and some of the work that you can complete on the train ride and there is opportunities to do that as well the the airport is going to be a great opportunity not only for international travel over the the long term I think some flights to Bali have started to open up now but it is going to be supportive from an economic standpoint as well when it comes to opening up the airways to Southeast Asia and the like

Yeah, so if that's sort of Newcastle in a sort of around the beaches, obviously you've got Lake Macquarie and sort of Central Coast as well. I know you do some buying down towards that way.

How do you sort of help clients who have got that flexibility, you know, think through all the things of living in different pockets and, you know, obviously schooling and, you know, how do you sort of help them understand the differences between sort of Newcastle, Lake Macquarie and then Central Coast and help guide them to the best location?

Yeah and from an investment perspective and this comes back to my time in financial advice and getting a clear understanding of what their current position is, what their asset base looks like, what their objectives are over the next sort of 10 or 15 years although it's very hard to determine that if you've got something on paper at least it does give you a bit more of a clearer line of sight on how you get from where you are today to where you want to be in the next 10 or 15 years.

Obviously it will change because life changes

on a dime but at least it provides somewhat of a pathway to that point and then the assets that are going to be suitable because we work across and we've got a team that supports across a fairly broad region not only do we have pete and the team that support up in in brisbane and the gold coast and sunshine coast we support late macquarie central coast and newcastle here it's about finding the right asset and the right asset mix for those particular clients across those regions so if we're looking at

the Newcastle, Central Coast, Lake Macquarie region, there's probably pockets of those areas that are going to be more suitable for others across different price points.

So if you've got the capacity to go between 1.15 and 1.5, for example, then we're probably going to lean towards the Newcastle market in many respects because we believe that that particular market at that price point is still poised for strong capital growth

over both the medium and the long term and then it's just defining the areas that are going to support that particular price point so if you're between 1.15 and 1.3 for example the Mayfield area has seen strong capital growth well it's seen significant gentrification to start with so it was probably frowned upon at a point in time lower socioeconomic area

fairly run down to some extent but it is a growth corridor that has been identified by Newcastle City Council and it has seen significant investment both from a private and government perspective and that has seen that area gentrify over the last period of time so now it's probably the highest

suburb at that price point that we've seen for a significant period of time so you've got a lot of young families that want to live in that Mayfield area you're very close to Newcastle CBD you're still very close to the beaches and the amenities but you need to be mindful of Mayfield so Mayfield's broken up into several different components so you've got Mayfield East

which is probably the more sought after pocket of Mayfield. You've got Mayfield itself, which is split by Maitland Highway that runs through. The top side is more preferred than the low side. The low side has some community housing. It's got higher flood risks down in pockets of that area.

and there's also a number of main through roads that you need to be aware of and then you've got Mayfield West which again has some community housing and then the bottom side you've also got a sort of a large older industrial area that will be redeveloped at some point in time that you need to be wary of.

so but that particular price point there are good options throughout both from those that have original properties that have been well kept over time that offer the opportunity to manufacture equity and yield at a point in time or those that have been well

kept and had some renovations over the years that offer opportunity for a bit of a set and forget for something in that area it's going to cost you 1.25 to 1.35 for an asset of that type on somewhere between 400 and 500 square meters so they're the types of assets it might be at that price point if you're at a lower price point and you let's say around a mil to 1.5

one the newcastle area is probably not going to be for you there's going to be very limited opportunities there will be some if you're willing to get your hands dirty and go down that pathway but if you're looking for something that you can just purchase and hold on to that asset for a period of time it stands on its own two feet newcastle's not going to be it it'll likely be somewhere

on the Central Coast, for example, like a Killarney Vale that benefits from all of the opportunities and same amenities that your East Baddow Bay, Shelley Beach, Long Jetty, Twoon Bay, Blue Bay have, like your schooling, like the beaches, like the golf courses.

Killarney Vale still benefits from all of those aspects with proximity to Tugra train station and the M1. So at that price point, that's probably the type of area you'd be looking at. So it comes down to one, your borrowing capacity, what your overall

goals are and objectives and then determining what the right asset will be to support that.

That's a good answer.

I love how you've gone down on a suburb point of view and just explained the differences of breaking up suburbs and the good parts, the bad parts, the challenges in certain pockets and where you got to be a bit more careful and where you think the biggest opportunity and the

the best scarcity is, et cetera. Because while you spoke about Mayfield there, you could talk about lots of different suburbs across that whole region and sort of break that down.

That's sort of the local knowledge you get, A, working as a BA, two, working as an advisor, having clients in different pockets and doing your own research, and then three, just

you know growing up you know it can be a little bit of a you know you've still got the view of when you're a kid what mayfield was like but you know you often you can sort of see that that's you know you can put that to the side and go yeah the reason why people love it nowadays is you know access to the city is really easy and you know it can give you that sort of inner city sort of alternative vibe that and the warehouses and that type of living that people

I've gone to Melbourne, they've gone lived overseas in London, and they just love that sort of inner city feel together with beautiful housing type style and gentrification of cafes and restaurants. And it's actually a very well located place in terms of where it is on the map as well.

So, yeah, I think that's really good. And that's one of the values of great BAs, right, is that they can talk you through. And particularly from an investor point of view, I think that's sort of knowing where a price

you know, it's going to be challenging and it's not worth and it's worth not even just flipping locations. That's hugely valuable because you don't want to be looking for a needle in the haystack. You don't want to be buying the worst performing properties in that suburb just to enter that suburb.

You're probably better off to shift strategies. And that's what a trusted advisor does is they'll say, well, we're going to move you to Killarney. I think that's going to get you a much better asset, something with much better growth potential than maybe buying something that's really compromised.

I mean, I believe you sort of grew up a lot on the Central Coast as well, and I think you live sort of in the middle there, right? So does that really help you as well? Because rather than just growing up in the Newcastle and just being pro Newcastle and not exploring

Because a lot of owner occupiers are willing to sort of be flexible. Like they don't have this sort of particularly people are moving up there. They don't have that sort of family connection.

They're willing to explore, not just Newcastle, Lake Macquarie, Central Coast, and they aren't as tired to just say buying in Merriweather.

Yeah and I'm right in the middle so I've always lived around that Catherine Hill Bay area which pretty much allows me to get to Newcastle within 30 or 40 minutes depending on traffic and not too dissimilar to get to the southern end of the coast.

So I know both areas really well because of that and I've lived across different regions of those areas well over time.

So yes, and you're right, people are willing to make sacrifice when it comes to purchasing their principal place of residence and being able to support and guide them where and how far their money goes across different asset classes in different suburbs will help them make a more educated decision.

Like me, you're in the trenches of young kids and, you know, a double dad. So I think, you know, it's not to say you can't be a good BA if you're not a dad.

I do think though, you know, what drives markets the most is, you know, A, managing life, but B, I do think it gives you a little bit of understanding, right? You don't know what life's like until the kids come and,

The challenges with childcare, the challenges with thinking about schooling, both primary and high, and understanding how families think a lot more, just being exposed to them when you're on that journey as well. I do think that gives you an extra understanding of the market.

Have you found that over the last few years as you've come up with life challenges, it starts to give you an extra element of understanding of the market?

It does and look we're in financial advice most of the families that we advise did have young kids and at the time I didn't have young kids I've got a four and a six year old now but it does give you a different perspective on life and the different challenges that occur throughout that period you're always going to have challenges when you've got kids whether they're young or older just different challenges throughout that cycle of life so it does provide you with a different

point of view and supports when you're having conversations with those clients when their expectations are that they want to send their kids to certain public schools they want to be in certain areas they might not want to they might not have the capacity to to provide private schooling for their children but they want to be in specific pockets

that have good quality government schooling across primary and high school. And therefore in those catchments, they can provide their kids with the education and the social and community construct that they're after. So, and I'll just put this back and talk about another region in Newcastle.

So if you look at New Lambton, for example, that is a very highly sought after area. One, because you've got a number of doctors, surgeons, nurses, et cetera, that utilize that. particular pocket because of its proximity to John Hunter Hospital and the research facilities and the like in that area.

But because of the demographic that are in that area, the schooling across New Lambton Primary and New Lambton High are the top performing government schools in the Newcastle area. So I guess having that on the ground expertise and understanding what one, what individual families are looking for.

when they're moving back to newcastle and what their expectation is of lifestyle but also schooling for their children having that ability to point them in the right direction around different suburbs have different schooling options etc that goes a long way to being able to provide them with the guidance that's necessary for them to live the life that they want to live but also provide the education and support that they want for their children

Yeah, I do think it's a big element of Newcastle. It's got very established sort of teaching schools and it performs really well. A, you can move there, but B, you can know you can get high quality sort of public schools. You have to pay private schools and teachers can afford to live there.

And I think that's one of the challenges of capital cities. While I also Big fan of obviously Newcastle. It's not just Newcastle, it's the Wollongong region, it's the Geelong region, it's the sunny coast, it's Gold Coast.

You know, they're all sort of piggybacking off the challenges that you have in a capital city and it's sort of a viable alternative for a lot of people who find that tough.

whether it's entering the housing market or whether it's just managing their life as kids come along in particular, and they look for an alternative location that's close by and then where they could potentially have an easier way of life, but still enjoy life, I guess, be close to their friends and their family and et cetera.

And if we talk about sort of the move with Pete and when we talk about Pete, we talk about Pete Wargen, who I do Australian property podcast with, but he's got Alan Wargen, been a buyer's agent for a long time. What was the benefits of sort of

you know, I guess working with Alan Wargin and what do you find on a day to day basis, you know, being within a team?

Yeah, it's a great opportunity to come across and be supported by Pete and the broader team. So we have a team with expertise across numerous related fields. So whether it be accounting, financial advice, property valuers, architecture that complements the service that we provide as buyers agents today.

So having that team around you that can support and guide different client conversations is exceptionally hard to find a boutique team that has that expertise internally. I think Pete as a whole is obviously very well known for what he does across the investment property space.

He's wrote plenty of books on the subject. He's built a substantial portfolio himself, being able to lean

on Pete and have conversations with him whether it be clients that are starting out and building portfolios that might be at different stages in their accumulation phase or they might have built substantial portfolios and are now looking to recalibrate that portfolio and pivot towards other asset classes or look at other options that might be available to themselves being able to lean on somebody like Pete that has one done it himself

but also supported hundreds and hundreds of others do the same is a significant differential for us.

Yeah, and it's just not paid to be honest. Shout out to Andrew here as well and Guy. And I think that when clients come, briefs come, different cities. Yeah, I get it.

But relationships with agents, the conversations, the games, even the challenges of sort of managing clients can sometimes be one of the biggest things you have to navigate in terms of getting alignment and making sure they're all on the right page and they're following the right rabbit, not the wrong one.

Yeah, I do think it can be a lonely job, sometimes a lot of service jobs if you're there by yourself. But one of the benefits of being in a small, highly sort of connected team can really help you because, yeah, it's feet on the ground. That's one thing.

But it's also the knowledge that you have is really important as well. If you think, Rhys, obviously on the agents there in Newcastle, I think it's changed a lot in the last five years.

If I think about sort of five years ago, if I looked at sort of some BAs operating in the Newcastle market, it was few and far between. But there's been a lot of Sydney companies come up there, but also some new ones pop up. But how's the relationships with the agents going?

Because there has been a pretty hot market as well. And how are they sort of being receptive to working with BAs and how do you sort of win their trust and actually gain an advantage there versus other buyers?

Yeah there's been a obviously it's been a significantly challenging market over the last few years because of the competitiveness of that market and all agents run their campaigns in different ways and I think it's about understanding how those agents run their campaigns when you're supporting clients in managing that process so there'll be

some agents in Newcastle that take everything to auction. There is no negotiating prior. You need to be aware of that process and be aligned with that process as well.

There's other agents in Newcastle that will position everything as an auction campaign just to drive competitiveness in the market, but they are willing to negotiate

beforehand so it's about understanding the nuances of each one of those agencies and how they perform because of my time in newcastle i have good relationships with a number of individuals that are now directors of agencies across newcastle because we spent time together in different hunter and newcastle groups throughout our early years at either pkf or or other firms so having those relationships does make a significant differential

to us in market because we can have frank conversations with those particular agents and work through terms and price where everybody walks away happy to an extent and you you can get the right outcome for both clients

Yeah, I do think, you know, agents take a long time to sort of turn over and, you know, they've worked hard, but they also are controlling, you know, sales a lot more than sort of people think, you know, determining who gets access, you know, determining what offers get considered a lot, how those offers are presented.

There's a lot that goes on behind the scenes with agents, there's another sort of a level playing field as, as buyers think, unfortunately, and you know, who are they going to give more likely?

And, you know, someone they know who knows the game, who's been around for a while, who sort of understands the difference of, you know, parts of Newcastle, et cetera, has worked with them before.

It's the ability that you've worked with them before and they know that you can get a deal done when everything is aligned and a lot of people get cold feet at points throughout the deal and you need to be able to manage that process both for your client, they ultimately want the outcome but things pop up that need to be managed.

and being able to work with an agent and them knowing that you can get the deal done makes a significant difference when it comes to either them positioning you and maybe you don't have the highest price but you've got better terms and they've got confidence that you can get the deal done will make a significant differential to our clients because a lot of people tend to fall away when the times become tough in a negotiation process.

there is a good thing for the city i'll call it that and you know central coast as well um is that it's you know not so much in recent times the probably central coast but i do think it's only

time that a lot of investors are looking at it just because of the price point, pushed out of capital cities, don't want to go to the second, third tier regions. And that's great for prices as well. You want a healthy investment element.

I do think it goes past the point where a lot of great assets then get driven by the owner occupy market. But Newcastle has been sort of a good sort of pocket for investors, particularly over the last few years.

Now, a lot of BAs that are sort of moving up there, they haven't grown up there, they haven't really got those long-term relationships. And some of these are the challenges I think you'll find.

And it's why we very much prefer working with buyers agents across the country that are local specialists that know that market, have been in that market through all different cycles, have sort of seen it sort of change over the years rather than just chasing the next hotspot.

And, you know, assuming you can apply what works in one town into a different city and a different region, it just doesn't work like that. And having got the relationships there takes years. And so Thanks so much for coming on, Rhys. Good chat. And it's good to get my hometown on the pod.

So thanks for coming on.

Appreciate your time.

Thanks so much for listening today. We hope you got lots of value out of it. If you'd like to speak to our guests today, there's links in the show notes on how you can get in contact.

And if you're buying your first home, upgrading, renovating, or need any finance-related queries, obviously we'd love to help. There's links in the show notes to us as a mortgage broker, and we look forward to next week's episode.