Michelle Tucker on the Central Coast Micro-Markets Sydney Buyers Miss

If you share what your budget is, I can guarantee you, having been a sales agent, they will make you spend it. They will, because they know you have it. Our motto is buy without regrets.

If you can buy a property that will serve you for 10 years, as opposed to three years, that will serve you well. Buying a great property today, that's not just what it's about.

It's also getting something that could be ripe for improvement when the time is right for that investor or for the next buyer. You think about, right, lifestyle, what's important to you? How do you get to work? What do you need for your family? What amenities like parks and shops?

Then you look at the budget.

Welcome to Street Secrets. I'm Chris Bates and my mortgage broadcast is 2013.

And in this podcast, we're going to be interviewing Australia's leading buyer's agents, ones with decades of experience, have the local insider knowledge on the street, and can really help you with your buying process, no matter whether you're a first home buyer, upgrade or investor.

In this podcast, you'll get access to Australia's leading buyer's agents' minds every week on a Thursday. What's the word on the street?

Welcome to Street Secrets. I'm Chris Bates, heading to a part of the show that I absolutely love. It's sort of the middle ground for where I live now. I can actually see it in the distance. I'm from where I grew up in Newcastle, heading to the Central Coast.

In the studio today with Michelle Tucker from Spring Buyers Agency. How are you doing?

I'm well. How are you, Chris? Thanks for having me.

No, our pleasure. And absolutely looking forward to this chat. We've worked together a number of times over the years. You've helped family members. And I really appreciate chatting to you. And I think it's such an interesting pocket. A lot of people probably don't understand just the complexities of the Central Coast market.

It's a super amazing place to live. It's got water. It's got lakes. It's got coastline, national parks. It's got trains to Sydney. There's just so much going on from a lifestyle point of view and a property point of view up there. And yeah, really looking forward to having a chat about that today.

But before we go there, let's just give an understanding of sort of your experience when you became a buyer's agent, when you've been working in real estate, sort of what made you make that shift?

Yeah, sure. I'd love to. So my career in real estate started about 20 years ago. It's always been on the Central Coast. To be honest, I kind of fell into real estate. I was offered a role as an assistant for one of the leading agents in Terrigal, actually.

So my career started in sales. He was, I think, number two in the network of LJ Hooker at the time. So he was a very high performer. We were always up against Matt Steinway. We go way back.

um so i really started one would say kind of at the top in the premium end of the market so i spent 10 years in sales there so that really gave me that real big depth of knowledge that i have in real estate locally we sort of operated in that high-end terrigal wombrel of oka market as well as acreage so i learned from a really good operator so that was probably what uh really gave me the depth of knowledge

From there, I diversified a little bit and went on to work. And you may not know this either, Chris, but I went on to work in development and projects. So I went to work for a fellow named Tony Denny, who started up a development company here on the coast.

And along with John Singleton and probably one other Sydney developer, we really carved the way for that Gosford revitalisation. So I spent about five years in projects development, which again gave me a very big understanding of that part of real estate.

And it wasn't until COVID hit that we decided to start our buyers agency. So in 2020, my business partner and I, Linda Johnson, decided that the buyers were really struggling out in the world of real estate. And that's when we decided to start our buyers agency. Everyone told us we were nuts.

The market, you know, everything was in chaos and here we are starting a business, but we could just see that the buyer's agency space was going to grow. And that was sort of five years ago, six years ago, and we're right at house.

Yeah, the Central Coast market, it was quite frustrating, to be honest. If I go back even five years before that, you know, clients would come in and would sit down and people still saw people face to face. And, you know, what's your budget? What are you doing? What are you having kids?

Where do you want to live? oh, we would really mind considering moving to the Central Coast. Like, we just love it. Like, you know, and our budget's really tight in Sydney and we can get so much more for our money up there. And I'm like, okay, cool.

You know, maybe go up and explore there and check out different suburbs and check out your minor or Edelon or, you know, and, you know, so you can still get to the city. And then I'm like, who can I refer it to? And I was like, there's no B8s. It was completely underserviced.

But I mean, you know, there are a few now. There's obviously a lot of ones that don't even live up on the Central Coast or have never. But I think, you know, What's interesting, though, that 10 years of experience, that was a, you know, and sales and also the development side.

I mean, where did that sort of teach you to give you a bit of an edge? I mean, you weren't starting from zero, right?

You're standing with a huge amount of understanding what the Central Coast, what the locals want, you know, in a completely different world, like a pre-COVID world where it was all driven by the local market.

Yeah, it was. And surprisingly, it still was driven a lot by the Sydney market. When we were selling property in Terrigal high-end property, if we did options, it was 50-50 whether it'd be a Sydney buyer or a Central Coast buyer, to be honest. Our stats are always sitting at around that 50-50.

But I think what I have seen is I've seen the transition of the Central Coast. I've seen the difference COVID make. I was operating in the GFC. I've seen these cycles come and go. And as a sales agent, I think what you get very, very good at is valuing property.

You're walking in to an owner and you don't have a price guide to work from as you do as a buyer's agent. You are walking into that owner and having to, with integrity and honesty and depth, tell them what their property's worth.

in the market so you get very very good at valuing you also get very good at negotiating as a buyer's agent yes we negotiate we make offers but my depth of understanding came from negotiating between both parties and that's something that a lot of buyers agents haven't done

Yeah, I think that's it. You know, we've had every single different industry probably now. Civil engineer was one last week into certifies agent. There's definitely value right there.

But I think when you're being a sales agent, you sort of understand those dynamics behind the scenes, the conversations the agent's going to have to have. with the vendor, with your offer as a buyer's agent.

Oh, totally. I've sat in those lounge rooms at 10 o'clock at night with contracts and having to talk vendors through that. And the psychology of being a sales agent really helps me as a buyer's agent. And I get that respect from the selling agents as well.

They understand because I'm often saying, I know what you're going through. So I can read the room very quickly having done that for so long.

Yeah, I think that's a huge benefit, particularly because your local real estate experience was in that market. I imagine if I was an agent and I'd be like, oh, you know what I'm going through? We know you haven't worked in this market before. You don't get it.

But no, no, no, I was here. I was in your seat, you know, 10, 15 years ago. And you can sort of connect on a... you know, a day-to-day level which builds trust and friendships.

And I think that's one of the hardest things when you're becoming a BA, I think, is to build those relationships and networks. But I think you've sort of started from ground one where, you know, you had those already right now.

It's a case of letting them know that you're on the other side of the fence. Where does that really help you today? I mean, because, you know, markets...

super hot last four years say maybe well maybe after COVID for a few years you know and how's that also helped you as the market's maybe gone a bit quieter and you know maybe less driven by that sort of rush out of Sydney how's that helping you now?

It helps us bring calm to the storm, really. A lot of people come to us and they're very, should I buy now? What should I do? I don't know what to do. I don't know the area. It really helps us. Not much rattles me in the market. I've seen it change.

I've seen it dip and it'll change again. So yes, there's people a bit rattled at the moment, not really knowing what to do, but we really do bring it back to buying, whether you're an investor or an occupier, buying a good asset in a good location,

No matter what the market's doing right now, most people buy property for 10 years plus, or they should be thinking that way. We understand life can change and circumstances can change, which is even more important to make sure you have a good asset.

So the right location, the right street, the right property for the person. And it doesn't matter what the market's doing today. What it's doing today is not going to matter in 10 years. We're always looking at, does this suit you now? Will this suit you in the future?

And who is the end buyer for this property? And if you don't have a highly desirable asset at the end of the day, you're not going to get the good sales price. So we're looking at lots of things. And I know the area inside out. I've raised my family here.

I've been to the schools here. I've had other businesses here. Yeah, we really bring that calm and confidence to people when they're buying.

Yeah, I mean, you mentioned some extra points that I love there. You know, I'm a dad, got two young kids. If I reflect on life pre-kids, I didn't know. You know, you just don't know what you don't know. I only got young ones. I've got a four and a six-year-old.

I don't know what life's going to be like when they're 10 or when they're 15, when they're 20. You know, the challenges of taxiing them around or, you know, the schools or high schools, like...

You know, when they're teenagers, I've had, I've got three children who are all in their twenties. So I know what happens when they go to teenagers. I know what happens when their friends come back.

I know how important something like a pool can be because it gives a reason for them to bring their, you know, their friends home. I know if you live in this area and you're driving half an hour to everything twice a day, it's gonna do your head in.

So we can really step people through that. And they're like, oh, I didn't think of that. I really didn't think of that. So it's not just market knowledge, it's experience and life experience that we bring.

Yeah, and I think, you know, particularly in the area, right, you know that they're the challenges that, you know, the parents are going to see. And that makes people really sell the property, right?

Like they, you know, and when you say, oh, I want to hold it for 10 years, yeah, that makes sense because you're basing it on life today and what you know. But, you know, five years down the line, you value different things.

And that property can give you a much longer runway and, you know, allow you to hold it through cycles and not have to sell it and pay the stamp duty, etc., So when we think about the Central Coast area, how do you break it down?

Like, you know, in your sort of mental, you know, how do you break it into different sections and, you know, talk it through, you know, at a sort of high level, the pros and cons of different pockets and, you know, what drives different pockets?

Well, as we know, the Central Coast is not one property market, and this is one of the biggest challenges people have coming up from Sydney. It's made up of many, many distinct micro markets. So each suburb has different demographics, it has different buyer demand, different growth drivers.

So the first thing that we do with people is really try and work out why they're coming up here. Obviously, budget's important, what their lifestyle is, what are their most important needs, and then we go from there. Within those suburbs are streets and micro pockets that you don't know about. There's flood zones.

There's hidden behind a mountain where you don't see the sun. There's bushfire zones. If you're going to renovate, they're really important. It's going to cost you a lot more to do it. There's so many... variances in the suburbs. There's different times to train stations if you're commuting. Yes, you can be.

So a lot of people come up from the northern beaches and their natural progression is I go to the peninsula. You minor those areas.

Whilst that suits a lot of people, it doesn't suit everyone because you can have 10 more minutes on the train to Gosford, the same drive to Gosford Station and a whole nother lot of suburbs open up to you.

So it's really important that we understand the intricacies of all of the suburbs to be able to guide people. Investors are really priced out of the southern end of the Central Coast now, really to get yields that are decent enough. You're not buying on the southern end of the coast.

So there's certain pockets up north that are behaving better, but still close to the water. You know, certain pockets in Tookley and Gorican and those sort of places, if you're in the right streets, there's still a bit of work to go up there. But people notoriously want to get close to the water.

It's how it works up here. How close to the beach can I be? What's my budget? How far back do I need to go? And it's so often the conversation that we're having.

Yeah, so you've got, you mentioned there, you mentioned the peninsula, sort of the Woiwoi, Edelong, Yamina, the Tongra, which is probably not a family driven market, but you know, the Pearl Beach sort of pocket and you've got like the inner rounds, the sort of Gosford and around sort of the lake there.

And then you've sort of got the beaches, right? And I guess it's just how, you know, different price points have been driven by a lot of older wealth to, you know, newer wealth to sort of second homes, et cetera.

Is there sort of pockets where, you know, you find that are driven by, you know, one buyer pool just predominantly that sometimes catch people out that they didn't understand that or, you know, types of properties you mentioned there around sort of, you know, bushfires and, you know, is there some sort of pockets or some example of somewhere where people didn't know when they're in those pockets they should have thought about?

I think people don't understand, they don't value enough aspect of a property. Like to live in a property that doesn't see the sun because it's hidden behind a hill, it looks great in summer, then you get to winter.

I mean, I spent a lot of my sales career on acreage and that really, really... drills into you very quickly how important acreage is. As we know, land is king.

If you don't get the right aspect on your acreage, you are in the shade in winter, you are leechville, you've got leeches everywhere and it's not pretty. So I've seen people make those mistakes as a sales agent and then 12 months later they're selling their house.

Same applies as a buyer in a suburban home. You don't have the right aspect, you don't have the right privacy. I see people make decisions around floor plans that they didn't think of. I'm always looking how big a buyer pool is this going to appeal to when it comes time to sell?

Because I know what, as a selling agent for so many years, what people want. And I know the struggle buyers have. So yeah, there are so many mistakes that people can make. You know, they don't realize that they're on a busy road or they don't realize they're on a cut through road.

They don't realize they're in a flood zone. They don't realize there's, you know, some social housing around the corner that could be an issue for a seller down the track. what are the schools like?

If you want private schools, if you're down on the peninsula, it's a bit of a travel to private schools. You're not close. So all of those things matter.

You mentioned, I think you're absolutely right. You've gone from a sort of a floor plan level all the way up into sort of a suburb level and then surrounding the property. And I think that's the way to think about it, right?

And then within those suburbs, sometimes you go the other way around, you'd be like, okay, I'm not going to avoid those type of Because I know aspects are really issue there.

I know that rat runs, I know schools are, et cetera, but it goes just all the way down to that sort of property level as well, right? And how much work it needs, how much it's going to cost to do it and, you know, and what's the future bias.

But when you think about sort of the upper parts of the central coast, you know, what's your sort of take on sort of, you mentioned that they're still, you know, going through a bit of a transition and gentrifying, I guess, you know, how are you sort of seeing things shift up, up further and further North, I guess, up the central coast?

Yeah, it's interesting. We're seeing a lot of buyers agents from out of area come into places like, you know, Gorrick and San Remo, Lake and Munmorah. Whilst these areas are gentrifying, and if I go back, you know, 20 years ago, my gosh, they're so different.

But there's still areas up there that I'd be very cautious of at the moment. And we're seeing buyers agents come in from Newcastle and from Sydney, and they're just snapping up whatever, wherever. They don't really understand the nuances of it.

So I'm still, for our investors, drilling down into micro pockets within those suburbs that I know are going to fly first, if that makes sense, over the next 10 years. Sometimes the demographic change on the coast can be slow.

So it's about understanding what people are going to want to buy, you know, in 10, 20 years.

We don't always have a crystal ball, but we know the ones that will take off first and we're kind of going for those rather than in the depths of these suburbs that have got a long way to go, if that makes sense.

Yeah, it was a question I usually ask people, you know, usually on these things, we have a little chit chat with guests prior to they come on. And you said something quite interesting around sort of mortgage brokers has sort of been coming to you a bit recently.

What's the difference you've seen and versus say longer term and brokers?

Interesting, I had one yesterday. We've had more mortgage brokers reach out to us probably in the last three months than we've ever had. And I don't mean blanket emails, you know, just fired out to every buyer's agent in the state. We always get those. But I've had considered phone calls from people.

And I think it's probably off the back of buyers being a little bit more considered now and perhaps having made mistakes in their investment journey. So they're really looking to partner, which is great because I know you've been a big advocate for this.

They're really looking to partner with a buyer's agent that has local knowledge. We have a property management arm of our business as well, which we look at the investment journey holistically, not just what you buy, it's how you take care of it down the track.

So they're looking for a partner who actually knows the area, knows what they're doing. I think they've probably seen too much of the borderless buyers agents who just grab whatever they think suits and don't really know the area.

So that's been a really good sign that things are moving forward in a good way.

Yeah, I mean, I absolutely love that. It was a story that I have wanted to hear more and more.

I think one of the big frustrations I've had in the broking world, and it's not like this is new, people have sort of seen this, is brokers absolutely provide loans and they help people get better rates. Sometimes that next step to, okay, you actually know more than your client often here.

You know that either this decision is going to potentially be a good one or a bad one, and maybe they're heading in the wrong direction. Maybe they need to go get some help.

And maybe you don't need to have to do that yourself, but maybe you can just figure out who could be some people they can go to and trust. And it sounds like those buyers, those mortgage brokers are actually taking that step and go, okay, I need to learn more.

I need to find some people. And if they're doing that with you, they're likely also doing that with other BAs. And I think this is great because there should be this sort of, real collaboration, working with clients to sort of help get the right outcome.

It's a win-win for everyone on that sort of conversation. And that's really comforting. I think the

And coming to meet, they actually are taking it a step further and not just calling and saying, let's meet, let's catch up. I want to meet you. I want to know how you operate. It's great. Like it's a really good thing for investors.

Yeah, that's right. And also the, you know, typically maybe they were looking for clients before, whereas now they're looking for actually, no, no, I want to take care of my client.

And not for, I think this is going to be one of the challenges of the, you know, the financial advice industry, you know, has also got to make this pivot as well. They've also got to basically go, okay, well, 55% of household wealth is in property.

Most of my clients' wealth is in property. My clients are making decisions around properties every day. That's going to have a huge impact on their sort of overall wealth. I need to make sure I refer it to sort of someone who we can trust.

And clients are also working with people all over the country. I think it's often they're not using the picking the local advisor, the local broker, the local advisor. accountant, they're finding online who they want to work with and are happy to work virtually.

And so I think that's just a, that's a really good story. But going back to sort of, you know, the Central Coast and sort of your experience within that market, you mentioned there are 50% of buyers that are coming from Sydney.

Maybe that's gone a bit slower in recent years, maybe it's higher, but what's some of the other things that people don't underestimate in the Central Coast market? Just, you know, why it's just so attractive to many different buyer pools?

Oh, look, it's just, I think it's driven by, of course, it's driven by budget, but it's also driven by lifestyle. It's a beautiful place to live.

And interesting statistics, in 2016 census and then the next census, there's 25% of people on the Central Coast that wherever their work is, they're working from home. That used to be about 4%. So there's no doubt that that connectivity to Sydney

even before COVID hit, that was the Gosford story. It was the fact that you can live and have the lifestyle that we do here and still connect back to Sydney. The difference being five-day commute before COVID was just a lot. People still did it. They did.

And I know that because I used to sell them property all the time. But it was a big considered decision. Once that's dropped to two and three days, and as I said, 25% of people on the last census day were working from home,

It's opened the floodgates to say, look, I only have to go to the city twice a week now. So it's driven by connectivity there. It's driven by lifestyle. I mean, look at it. You can have acres, you can have by the beach, by the lake, you can have this.

And we've got lovely restaurants now. We're not like we used to be 20 years ago where it's hard pressed to find a restaurant. We've got operators like, you know, in Terrigal, the pavilion, they own the Burley Pavilion. There's so many choices now. People are going, you know, it's not that bad.

You can have a lifestyle that is more relaxed without the traffic. And interestingly, one of the biggest things on our buyers list at the moment is that community vibe. They're wanting the little village shops. I live in Forresters Beach and for the first time in my career,

I have seen buyers, and we're only eight minutes from Terrigal, so we're very close. But when I was a sales aide in Terrigal, they'd go, oh, Forresters Beach, I'm not going out there. That's miles away. Now I'm seeing buyers that could afford Terrigal or Wombrill are coming to Forresters Beach.

And the reason they're doing that is the community vibe. We've got the little village shops. Everyone knows your name. Our office is down in that village. They're looking for lifestyle, connection, community, beach. schools.

So it's become a pretty desirable place to live, not just a place that, oh, I can't afford Sydney, so I'll go there.

Yeah, that community element is often sort of, I do think COVID's really flipped it, right? Your community maybe was because you're so much out of your house. It was work. It was, you know, you got time on weekends.

But, you know, I think working from home a little bit and a lot of the people moving to the Central Coast have got the ability to do that. And so it's a double win, right? I can work from home. Plus I know everyone up at the local coffee shop.

It's a little bit like the beaches where I live, you know, that's particularly the upper beaches is, You know, people are moving here because, and then I think it's this kind of self-fulfilling prophecy. If more people move there with that mindset, then they make effort and the community gets better.

And then the coffee shop's busier and then it starts to become a community in itself because of the people moving there that wants it. So I've definitely seen that happen as well. And I agree, you know, often a lot of people would have moved to the Central Coast because the budget, but

You know, when you, you know, when you can compare what you can get, and if you've got that flexibility with work, you know, you can, you know, get the lifestyle commute. Um, central coast, it's also extremely landlocked as well.

Like I think, you know, an issue in area when you go, okay, there's lifestyle there, but then there's no limit on supply. You go, oh, I'm still very nervous, but central coast is topographically and with water, it's extremely challenged, right?

It is. And hence why we're big advocates of buying. And look, a lot of people come up here and want to be as close to the beach as they can. And that's a great goal. But without the local knowledge, you can make big mistakes on where to go.

We don't really buy too often out in those areas where they're subdividing a lot of blocks and building new homes.

Yes, that's for some buyers, but what we find is our buyers are coming to the coast, they're young families, a lot of them, and I'm talking owner-aux here, not investors, but it's true for investors as well.

But we're getting them as close to the beach as we can, but we're getting them into areas that they probably wouldn't have identified themselves. We're making sure that they don't buy a DIY nightmare of a property that's gonna cost them a fortune and they're not gonna be able to add decent value to.

We're making sure that they buy in the absolute best location they can for their money and they're gonna make

build wealth because let's face it whether you're buying an investment or an owner property you want to build wealth it could be a stepping stone to your next property you don't want you want something that someone's really going to want when you go to sell it that's top of mind for us and if that means spending weeks educating people showing them different places that's what we do and that's why people keep coming back they feel guided they feel trust they know we have their back um yeah and they get often get into property that they just wouldn't have found

I think I find with the market is you've got lots of roads that, you know, it's like the hills and then there's the beach and there's the lake and you cross here and you know what I mean?

And you can find there's just a lot to sort of digest and, you know, and every market's a bit different because they are the topography and the hills and the aspects and...

And then you completely miss a pocket because you always drive on that road and you didn't know that this little pocket exists.

Exactly.

And in that pocket, this is the better pocket of that pocket.

I think it's a great market to be a BA in, I think, because you've got a really strong, easy to add value because there is just so many mistakes people can make within that market, I find, compared to, say, maybe a quintessential sort of suburb where it's easy to value X property versus Y, even though there's huge value you can add there as well.

Do you find that as well, though, when you're sort of seeing some sales go through, you start to go, oh, only if they knew that that part of a vocal was really challenging.

Do you sometimes get surprised and feel a bit frustrated, I guess, at the people who haven't reached out for help and they're buying something that you know is going to be hard to sell one day?

absolutely happens all the time that is the reason we didn't we didn't start linda i didn't start our business because we were passionate about property we are but that's not the reason you hear a lot of buyers agents say oh i burnt my first property at 24 and i just love property we started our buyers agency because we saw firsthand that the state buyers made and the challenges buyers had we wanted to help that we wanted to make a difference and that's what we do we

I get clients sending me property whilst we're working with them as you do. They go, oh, I saw this online, thought I'd flick it through. And I just say, this is where they waste time. It's in a flood zone. It floods. The road will be cut off.

They're like, oh, I thought it was priced really well for a really good property. So they would have wasted time driving up, looking at it, wasting money, perhaps even buying it without even knowing that in a flood event, they're underwater. So there are so many risks.

But then there's a lot of the central coast is in the flood development zone, which means it doesn't flood, but it is subject to development control. People don't know the difference. They're like, oh, but it's subject to flood control. What does that mean? Does that mean I flood?

No, you're not going to flood. But if you renovate, you are subject to development controls with floor heights and things like that. They don't know.

so all of those things yeah it's interesting you um yeah it's yeah there's there's often we find in the central market is that the you know the the sydney family is going up there and um you know they you know it's easy to fall in love with the photos right i'd say that's one of those markets where the photos can be amazing the view the the

And that's a good job of an agent to sell the lifestyle, but you fall in love with the property, but you don't sort of know the actual, what you're really buying. It's almost like there's this... 100%. And it's also like...

you know, the mission of leaving Sydney, you know, obviously because it's not far enough to want to stay. So they try to make it work or they're like, I'll just nip up there after work at five o'clock and everything's rushed.

And, you know, and then they don't want to be going for that, like viewings, every sort of, you know, because when you're hot in the market, you've got to get up there and you've got to be there when the agent has something good.

And I feel like it's also the pain of buying sometimes difficult because they're not living there and they're trying to buy before they move. And so I find that there's a lot of mistakes people can make just because of

it's quite hard to actually secure because they're not living there and they don't know obviously what the locals know you have just hit the nail on the head that's exactly what happens people look at property they don't know one suburb from another they jump around from there to there to there to their scattered approach but they come up here and it's like oh this feels so good they walk into a house that's styled it looks

the vibe is coastal they're like oh i can see myself here but they don't understand there is a much better property over there or over there or this one's overpriced they don't even know that sounds cheap to them and they're like oh this is good price it's not it's actually overpriced so our job is to show them

the best they can get for their money because you don't just come up here and grab something because it's oh i love this vibe and it's a quiet street and i can walk to the beach yeah but you can do so much better two streets over or that that's our job and i think people get once they fall in love with the property the blinkers come on and they don't see i don't see that i don't see that i've had people walk away from a property and then we debrief on it later and i said well there's for a start there's no garage

I didn't even notice that. Yeah, you're right. There's no car. But they'd fallen in love with the feeling of living there. So that's what we do in a calm, considered way. You say, this property is great, but have you thought of this? Have you thought of that? Have you thought of that?

No, I haven't. Maybe I should look a bit more. Yeah, we think you should. So that's what we do.

Yeah, I think the, you know, I sort of laugh as well because, you know, when you're going through property decisions yourself, you make all these mistakes. Even if you've been in the industry, you've been working in it, you work BAs, your whole emotions take over.

I sort of just reflect on now move to the beaches and what, you know, and then we upgrade and, you know, like we're in Melbourne and, you know, watching our clients and, you

You know, it's just really hard when you're actively trying to buy in the market, you just, your brain starts sabotaging you. And I think that's it. You know, you absolutely, you fall in love with the wrong properties.

You, you know, you can go to viewings and you just completely haven't even like, not even having bedrooms there. It wasn't even really a bedroom on the, you thought it was. And, um, yeah, absolutely. I've seen those mistakes where they haven't even looked over the back fence. You haven't thought about privacy.

You were just so enchanted with the, the view out of one window. Um, And I think that's the Central Coast market.

You know, the other big challenge, and this is one of the other challenges and what people don't realise and why they need to get representation is, it's very difficult when you're, and you would know this, if you're looking at property up here, you're talking to the sales agents, you want opportunity to come your way.

Yes, they'll really only show you what they've got listed, but you kind of have to share a budget. with them, really. Like you have to give them some idea. They're going to say, ask, or they're not going to take you seriously if you don't. So you share your budget.

You want to keep a bit under your belt because you don't want to tell them what you've really got, but then you're kind of missing out on opportunity. So if you share what your budget is, I can guarantee you, having been a sales agent, they will make you spend it.

They will because they know you have it. And they might have a conversation with us and not discounting selling agents. They're working for the vendor and they're doing a great job. There's a lot of good selling agents up here.

But if they know you've got it and they know the vendor wants it, they'll make you pay it where you could have bought it for $100,000 less if they didn't know what your budget was. So they're the problems with sharing what you have. You either don't share and you miss opportunity.

You do share and they make you spend it.

Yeah, it's that awkward conversation that comes, right? If they do know your budget, there's ways for someone independent, you know, because they could find you might have bidded on something, I don't know, $2.1 million, missed out at auction, but you want to buy something at $1.9.

They know you've got $2.1 because they know you bidded on that because all the agents talk and they know every buyer. They know everything about you. Like, let's be real. The data they've got behind the scenes on you is not what... You know, you'd love to get access to it, isn't it?

Oh, my God, I can't believe I said that six years ago. But, yeah, I think there are ways for that independent person in the middle to reframe the negotiation and win the control there and, you know, create that scarcity and be very skilled at winning the power back. And I find that...

You know, that's often where buyers, they go, oh, they get overconfidence on finding something and they're educated on the local market and they're out there looking and they're good at being maybe less emotional and understanding what's a good asset. And then all of a sudden they get to the offer stage and

it's like, what card do I play? And which one do I now do? And it all starts to unravel. And then it's always too late because they've got the property they want and they're scrambling, they're on the back foot.

And I think that's where, you know, one of the benefits, when you think about, you know, it's one of the questions I love to ask on here is,

When you look at the reviews, you look at like, you know, after the client settled or even a year or two or three years later, what are some of the intangible things that they say, you know, Michelle, Linda, like what, that was just so valuable what you guys did.

It wasn't what I expected. It was like, you know, I expected to maybe find something and get in a good deal, but you did this, this and this for me. And that really was a huge value add. What are some of those intangible sort of things they weren't expecting?

Yeah, it's a good question. It's normally around, even though we save 99% of our clients' money, it's not always about that. In fact, it's usually not about that. It's about they didn't know what they didn't know.

And whilst you can share your service offering to them and they engage you, they really don't understand. It's not until they buy, they go, oh my God, like I did not understand the things that I didn't know.

we felt guided, we felt you had our back and you gave us the confidence to move forward without questioning what we were doing. Often if they'd bought property before and hadn't had a buyer's agent, they'd gone into property still questioning their decision. Have I done the right thing? Is this the right property?

Whether it is or not, they went into the one with us feeling confident

and secure that they bought the best they could for their money and they weren't buying a problem they didn't feel scared that oh i've bought a problem i've bought a great property and it's just that guidance that you know they they felt uh looked after and cared for and that they got the best they could for their money

Yeah, that sort of confidence to transact is a, you know, because I talk about that scenario, that still gets the rubber to the road, sign the contract, you know, and every single buyer does this. I mean, if they don't, unless they purchase it, they still keep the apps.

They still keep looking at listings. They want to prove to themselves that they bought the best asset, even though they can't change it. And, you know, unless they had that real confidence that, You know, they had someone to bounce their fears with and talk it through.

Often they just get this like resentment or not resentment, but there's this fear of, is it the wrong decision? And that can basically overwhelm the whole buying journey because they're like so fearful of making a mistake. And I think, and sometimes they don't make a decision because they're worried about making the mistakes.

I think there's a lot of value in just that final, yeah, sign the contract. You're okay. This is good. You're going to be okay. Which is really hard to do with a partner because usually, yeah.

They see what goes into it and they see what we do and it's at that point they realise, my God, I just didn't know what I didn't know. I could have made all sorts of mistakes. I wouldn't have even asked that question. I wouldn't even have thought of that.

I would have given away that leverage to the selling agent. Even when we talk about strategy, I'm about to do that with a client after this. We're going to try and buy a property this afternoon and we're talking about strategy.

I guarantee you I will ask questions of them that they wouldn't even have thought of. It's around the timing of an offer and I've made sure that that they haven't given away leverage to that sales agent yet.

Because I know that every word that I speak from the moment I go into a property matters. I've been a sales agent. I know when people give away their leverage and we don't do that. So sales agents don't even ask us what our client's budget is. They don't even ask.

I've known many of them so many years. They trust that if where they're looking at a property, we have a client. We're not the buyer's agent who goes in just to get videos and post it on social media. In fact, we're terrible on social media. We're too busy buying property.

If I'm there and I'm looking, I'm interested. And that's all they need to know. And they're happy with that.

Michelle, it's been an awesome chat. So much gold in there. Really appreciate it. We've had clients work with you and Linda multiple times for many years. And so you're in super safe hands. And today's just sort of highlighted that more than ever.

And so thanks so much for coming on and appreciate your time.

Thanks, Chris. Really appreciate it. I love the work you're doing with buyers agents. I think the collaboration moving forward is going to really add value to buyers. So thanks for having me.

Thanks so much for listening today. We hope you got lots of value out of it. If you'd like to speak to our guests today, there's links in the show notes on how you can get in contact.

And if you're buying your first home, upgrading, renovating, or need any finance-related queries, obviously we'd love to help. There's links in the show notes to us as a mortgage broker, and we look forward to next week's episode.